Fold pre-flop when I have to call 2 cold

[Luv2DriveTT]

If I only knew I had the nutz!

I won't enter a hand this early unless I raise to slim out the field. I shouldn't have played it since its not suited this early, but hey we all make errors when you have serious action on more than one table at the same time (can you belive I had KK and AK at the EXACT SAME TIME on two of my other tables? The KK hand won without a showdown with quads!) MP2 is a possible maniac, but I have been 4 tabling and didn't have the chance at the time to check his PT stats. I have no pre-flop experiance with the other players, including the fool who called 4 cold.

Question: I hate raising and then folding pre-flop.... but calling another two bets makes me shiver. What would you have done?

Ignore the fact that I would have had 4 of a kind if I stayed to the end when answering my question please.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, SB calls, SB checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (8 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>

River: (8 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8 BB, between MP2, MP3, SB and UTG.</font>

[tiltaholic]

Hi-

My stab:
I am not comfortable yet w/playing QJo that early, so I would fold preflop. But assuming the open-raise is correct I would also fold when it came back capped to me. I can't see how calling two is correct. I figure I am dominated unless lotsa jacks come out... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hope some more people weight in on this too.

And yes, I hate it when I fold the nuts, but I fold QJo from early middle position, is that weak?

-t

[Chris Daddy Cool]

You should fold this preflop to begin with.

When it's capped back to you 2 cold, you MUST fold.

Also, there's no need to post what happened after you did fold. Some newbie could read this post and dedcut that you should never fold preflop in this situation because you might flop the nuts! That kind of thinking is misleading and dangerous. Don't include the rest of the hand.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi-
I fold QJo from early middle position, is that weak?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but your obviously not as aggressive as I am. for 2 bets on a low-limit table I'll take a stab at the pot from MP1. My (relitivly minor) mistake here is thinking I was in MP1 when I bet because my attention was elsewhere with my other two tables.

Remember - hands are won post-flop, not pre-flop. Pre-flop mistakes are minor, post-flop mistakes are MAJOR.

TT in da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[tiltaholic]

I guess it's all about perspective and table texture.
1/2 is low-limit to you, double limit to me...
I'd never take a stab at the pot with QJo from MP if I thought there was a chance of a reraise (or cap) behind me. Without the cap, it seemed like an easy flop preflop, with the cap I think the fold is mandatory.

The reason for my question was I was wondering if I was doing something fundamentally wrong. I have only been playing QJo from the blinds and sometimes from the button for one bet. It's true I may be leaving a little extra money on the table in some situations, but at the point I'm at, I think QJo is only marginally +EV and until I stopped playing it was my single biggest loser. I'd be willing to trade a little positive gain for a ton of loss and just not play QJo in these situations. Maybe I just suck post-flop, but you have to start somewhere...

[ QUOTE ]
Remember - hands are won post-flop, not pre-flop. Pre-flop mistakes are minor, post-flop mistakes are MAJOR.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but continually playing crap starting hands for 2 bets out of position is also major. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-t

[detruncate]

You're not making a mistake by folding it. I'd play QJ in the blinds and in late position for 1 bet. A steal attempt is not out of the question, but very siutation dependent. MP1 is a bit early in the games I play.

[DocMartin]

I might limp in from MP depending on the table and folding to the cold call looks right.