The big pot made me do it. (PP 30/60) [Archive]

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Enon

09-30-2004, 08:50 PM

THe limp-reraiser in this hand is a LAG with 31 VP$IP and PF of 14%. At the time of this hand, I'm not giving him credit for AA or KK here since many of the players in this game pull some really wacky sh*t and pull the limp-reraise with medium pocket pairs and a wide variety of suited hands.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises

random

09-30-2004, 10:52 PM

If you're not giving him credit for a better hand, not capping preflop is silly. The flop raise is nothing special. I would actually raise the turn as the only real draw out there is the flush draw that will not fold to any action on the flop anyway. There are a lot of people to act after you, and it wouldn't hurt to find out how they feel about the flop first.

Chris Daddy Cool

09-30-2004, 11:18 PM

if you dont give him credit for a better hand than you, you gotta cap this preflop.

flop raise looks fine.

nykenny

09-30-2004, 11:40 PM

i'd be very surpprised if u turned out to win this pot with just JJ...

5 people see the flop for 3 bet each. and you have one over card, with 3 people behind you to act...

i'd just call since there is some good equity for turnning your set. calling also enable you to see if anyone has a Q behind you (better chance of finding that out).

raising will get you bad information, as you are the preflop aggressor (one of them), and you raise on a queen high board again against the other preflop aggressor. the 3 cold callers (sort of) behind might just call with KQ, QJ, QT and you will not be able to get them to fold those either.

all in all, i'd chose between calling and folding. since i don't give UTG full credit, i'd be more inclined to just call and see what develops behind me.

Kenny

Enon

10-01-2004, 03:23 PM

...for the very insightful post.

Much appreciated.

Robb

10-01-2004, 05:21 PM

First off only smooth-call the limp re-raise pre-flop if you are planning on popping the flop. Otherwise cap.

I also gotta disagree with a flop call. You may have the best hand and you must do everything you can to get it heads up with the LAG.

What happens when you call and MP3 raises? You're beat? Not necessarily. I know I would take a shot here with any pair or value raise a heart draw if I were MP3 after you show weakness pre-flop and flop. If I were MP3 or blinds I would raise in an attempt to do what you were supposed to do: get it headsup with the LAG.

However, if you raise the flop and are called by MP3 or the blinds you can narrow down their hands much better imo...allowing you to play the critical turn well. And if LAG 3 bets your flop raise, very valuable info. Then I think you can safely fold the turn to LAG if there are other players behind. (If it turns out LAG 3bets the flop with A10o then more power to him but now he's in the Maniac category from here on out).

A flop call is ok if you plan on popping the turn, not laying down on the turn if you miss your set.

Just my opinion.
Regards,
Jamie

JasonP530

10-01-2004, 06:08 PM

I would NOT cap preflop. It will make a pair of jacks too difficult to play after the flop. Besides, you could be against a better hand. I think your win% of the hand will go up, which will more than account for the equity of the extra raise(when you could be up against a big pair anyways). I would not raise the flop either. Youre unlikely to get anyone behind you to fold a better hand, and the LAG will reraise you with a big pair, and may do it with other crap. If you get reraised, you are likely behind, but cant lay down in case his is so LAG. IT is a much better plan to raise the turn, when you can charge the draws, and stand a lesser chance of being reraised by a big pair.

Enon

10-01-2004, 06:53 PM

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero folds, MP3 calls, BB calls.

River: (18.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB
Main Pot: 20.50 BB, between MP3 and UTG. > Pot won by UTG (20.50 BB).

Results: 
UTG has Ac As (two pair, aces and fours).
MP3 has Kh Qd (two pair, queens and fours).
Outcome: UTG wins 20.50 BB.