88 pocket overpair

[detruncate]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero ???

Do we call this? How about the rest of the hand? Flop overplayed? Turn bet a bit much? Chime in folks.

[Luv2DriveTT]

check-call the turn for 1 bet.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
check-call the turn for 1 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

The K didn't help him. If you called the raise on the turn, you should call this bet, unless you're concerned about having to overcall the SB.

[tiltaholic]

Hi-
The flop 3-bet I like. I'd probably wuss out and just call.
But the turn I am unsure about.
When SB doesn't raise I think you're either way behind MP2 or you're good. Must call the river bet - you are good at least 10% of the time, likely much more.

-t

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
The K didn't help him. If you called the raise on the turn, you should call this bet, unless you're concerned about having to overcall the SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

The K didn't help him, but it also didn't help me. I had straight outs to (possibly) bail me out if the turn completed his draw. I'm not really worried about overcalling. SB probably would have raised his flush. I felt there was very little chance I was good. I called anyway... but I think it was most likely a bad decision.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
Must call the river bet - you are good at least 10% of the time, likely much more.

-t

[/ QUOTE ]

You think so? Bah. My river play sucks. I'm swinging between folding/calling too much.

[tiltaholic]

Dude, don't assume you are wrong.
Compared to me, I think you are the expert here...
It's easy for me to sat, "yeah, sure, call it" without sitting there actually giving away money to these people. I'm not sure it's the correct play - I think my tendancy to call this would depend a lot on my read of the villian. If he wild and crazy, sure, he could have an overpair to my 8s, but it's equally likely he had Ax looking for the X to make a one card straight. If he's really passive, he probably has 2-pair...

Looking forward to the results.

[detruncate]

It's not so much that I'm ready to concede the point... I found it interesting that your read of the situation differed so much from mine. Gives me something to think about.

I appreciate the compliment, but it would be a huge stretch to call myself an expert in relation to anyone who regularly posts here. I just have lots of practice pretending to know what I'm talking about.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
The K didn't help him. If you called the raise on the turn, you should call this bet, unless you're concerned about having to overcall the SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has to call the turn raise with an OESD.

[tiltaholic]

Yeah, I know the feeling. I've been questioning everything about my game since I am trying to work out of a 100 BB downswing...

Looking at the hand playing out on the screen, (as opposed to the heat of the moment) and given the stellar skills of the .5/1 partyers...I think it's easily 1 in 10 than they're betting out/calling down with top pair on the flop - no more, no less. With an overpair to the flop, you crush them. True, the King falling might have given them 2 pair, but so be it (and they'd likely raise if that were the case). Also, it's easily 1 in 10 that the villian is bluffing a busted draw. I see that all the time. While I'm not confident enough to raise the river, I'll surely call. Maybe my line of thinking is wrong, but I'd say the call is good for sure. (although, maybe your earlier agression scared a better hand into check calling...) Now the overcaller raises some problems but my gut feeling is still to call.

-t

[detruncate]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 (poster) checks, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 15.50 BB, between SB, Hero and MP2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP2 (15.50 BB).</font>

Results:
SB has 6h 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero has 8d 8c (one pair, eights).
MP2 has 4s 7c (straight, seven high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 15.50 BB.

[tiltaholic]

Whoa. I still say nicely played by you, even though I feel shame for having the 3rd best hand (not that 2nd is any better). I write down the name of MP2 hope he continues to redeposit.

I am torn as to whether SB saved you bets, or kept you around longer. Had he sprung to life and capped the flop, you'd probably have checked the turn and maybe folded at some point down the road. Though he did allow you do draw to your potentially winning straight.

These kinds of hands get me thinking - we always think about the idea that "well, I just need to be correct 1 in X times to make a profit..." . But on these coordinated boards, those that are sticking around, more often do occasionally have a hand that can beat an unimproved mid pocket pair than if we're just considering random hands that these guys play. I wonder how often 8s do hold up unimproved on boards like this...

[Frogistador]

&gt; I write down the name of MP2 hope he continues to redeposit.

Newbie question: What's wrong with MP2's play? He posted preflop. He has top pair and a gutshot draw on the flop. I'd be thinking I have 6 outs to a winning hand (5's and 7's) and 3 outs to a probable winner (4's). He raises on the flop to try for a free card. Seems brilliant to me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Makes sense?

[Entity]

Besides posting in MP2, MP2 played this hand brilliantly.

Rob

[tiltaholic]

I totally missed that he posted.
In that case, I think he played it well...
Thanks for pointing that out.
-t

[poolshark]

muck the river