Some No Limit Hands

Here's some hands I played in a 2-3-5 no limit game.


There is a particular player in this regular game that is a close friend and plays well. We have played together regularly for about two years and most of our confrontations boil down to bullshit backed up with intense psychological warfare. Several of these hands involve him and therefore may appear to be crazy on the surface. I have a slightly better read on his play than he does of mine. His biggest weakness is that he doesn't play position all that well. But he's VERY good at making calls on the river with marginal holdings that are winners. I'll call him The Guy.


#1. THE DISASTROUS SLOW PLAY


One weak limper for 10. I have 7c5c and raise to 30 in the cut-off. The big blind raises 30. Limper calls. I call. My stack is about 1500, big blind is The Guy and has about 1500, limper is about 500. Flop is 689 rainbow with a club. Big blind bets 100. Limper folds, I raise 250. Big blind calls.


Turn comes the 2c. Check check. I firmly put The Guy on a medium overpair because this is how he always plays a medium overpair.


River comes a Q. Check, I bet 300, big blind raises me 300 more. I can safely throw away this hand now. He can only have one hand. But limit hold'em thinking starts to take over my brain and I pay him off because the pot is fairly large. He shows the only hand he can possibly have in this situation and I muck. I flopped the nuts, I turned a redraw, and I lost 600 on the river. What a dummy.


#2. THE SUCCESSFUL SLOW PLAY


4 handed now. I have a stack of about 1500. I open for 10 with 55. Big blind calls with about 1200 behind him. Flop comes 445. Big blind bets 50! He says ("just enough to keep you in"). I call. Turn comes a Kh. Big blind bets 150, "just enough to get you to fold" he says. I call. River comes a third heart. Big blind checks. I bet 400. Big blind calls with a backdoored flush (7h3h). Woohoo! He was stealing the whole time and then he caught the money card! I'm surprised he didn't raise me because my bet looked so much like a steal. He's a mediocre player but not great.


#3. IS THAT HOW YOU PLAY POSITION?


4 handed. I have K9s. I open for 25. The button is The Guy and calls. This is the same player who beat me with JT in hand #1. We both have about 1500. Flop comes A58. Check check.


Turn comes a second ace, making two spades. Check, The Guy bets 40, I call. River comes another brick. I check, my opponent checks. I win. He shows a suited Q of spades. He doesn't play position as well as he should. I'm pretty sure he called with Qxs figuring he'd try to outplay me with position but didn't follow through on it.


#4. CHOP IT!


On the button I raise to 30 with AQs against a weak limper. Big blind is The Guy and defends. Our stacks are about 1300. Flop comes QJ9 rainbow. Check, check, I bet 100. Big blind raises 200. Limper drops. I raise 400 more because I've been playing very loose aggressive and it would be too easy for him to put me on nothing. I figure him for a T. He calls. Turn is a brick. Check check. River brick. He bets 250. This is about 1/2 of his remaining stack. With a pot this big, I feel like he's got a hand he doesn't want me to push him off of, so he bet enough to make sure he's pot stuck and to prevent me from moving in unless I really have it. He knows he can't fold, so he's making this move so he won't be tempted to if I move him all in. I call assuming he has only top pair and we chop.


#5. HOW MANY LEVELS DEEP?


Last hand with The Guy.


My stack is about 2500. I open-raise on the button for 40 with AQs. The Guy raises back 40 from the Big Blind. I call. This time I've got him covered by about 800. Flop comes rags. He bets 100, I raise 250, he calls. At this point, he definitely has an overpair in the middle range. He always plays middle pairs this way. With KK or AA he will push hard but with smaller pairs he'll slow down and hang on as long as it's an overpair but he won't be too aggressive.


Turn is a brick. Check check. I did my part on the flop, I found out where I stand, and now I've given up on this pot.


River is a K. He looks dumbfounded. He was obviously intending to bet but now he checks reluctantly. I push all-in. After a LONG deliberation he folds. My play on the flop and turn looked so much like AK that he chose to believe. I had been playing VERY aggressively for most of the night and was bluffing a lot. I'm convinced that the reason the bluff worked on him was because he knew I knew my bluffing-image was likely going to inspire a call, therefore he was convinced I was value betting. He knew that I knew my stupid bluff was unlikely to work, so therefore it must not be a bluff.


That was about 5 levels deep in the the psychological warfare department. I made my own head reel with that move.


I still lost $2 for the night and am now at 9 losing sessions out of the last 10. :)


Comments on any of the hands appreciated.


natedogg

One weak limper for 10. I have 7c5c and raise to 30 in the cut-off.


This raise is a kinda interesting raise coming from the cutoff seat. It can't be a steal. Can it? Trying to disguise your hand? Is the $2 blind the button or left of the button?

Hand #1- You say you flopped the nuts (not exactly true), turned a redraw (not really what you want), and lost 600 on the river (true enough). I don't like the check behind on the turn. The pot is already big, your opponent appears to be on a draw, what good is checking the turn? Even if a club hits the river, you can't be too comfortable with your 7-high flush. Should have moved in big on the turn, but you know that.


Hand#2- Nice flop. Bunch of ways to play it, looks like you picked one of the best.


Hand #3- Yeah, he did give up his position advantage, especially if he knows that you're not a big fan of the check-raise (I'm assuming you're not)


Hand#4- I REALLY don't understand the check behind on the turn here. If you put him on a ten, why would you give him a free card? Unless you were afraid you were being trapped. Was that it?


Hand#5- You just outplayed him. You basically had every overcard A-J as an out. I think this was your best hand, for all the reasons you described.

I don't understand why there are so many levels on the "levels deep" hand.


Haven't you played the hand like AK? You've actually GOT AQs so you can't play AK THAT differently can you?


He's got a medium pair. AK is a likely hand and there is a K out there. Surely he can't call whatever your bluffing image?


Out of interest what would you have done if you had had AK? Or more to the point what if you had got a tight, loose or other image. It still seams likely that you've got AK (or even KK and were just scared of his aces).


I have to admit I can only manage "level one" thinking. I intellectually "know" that I should develop the depth of my thought more (and I am trying) but in the back of my mind there is this creeping doubt about whether or not I might start out-guessing myself or overcomplicating things.


OK - scratch the comment about you having KK and being afraid of AA. As long as someone tells this non American who the Casper Milquetoast who Bob Ciaffone keeps going on about is.

Well, the hand was "deep" based on the thinking involved between the opponents. It wasn't simply "I'm going to bet to represent AK". There are several hands that Nate might have played that way. He could have been slow-playing a set, AQ, a straight draw, etc. Remember, he open-raised on the button (that could be almost any decent hand), could have tried to steal on the flop, then given up on the turn after the guy called. He could have a wide variety of hands.


The "deepness" comes when the guy checks the river, providing a perfect bluff opportunity. Nate had been bluffing a lot, and the guy knew this. An underbet (like $300) would seem the likeliest choice if he wanted a call. An all-in bet looks like a bluff based on a read. But the guy knows this, and knows that Nate would know this, and therefore he figures that Nate overbet to make it look like a bluff, but was actually hoping for a call. But Nate was one step ahead, and bluffed in a way to make it look so much like a bluff, that his opponent folded, thinking it must be a value bet.


Pretty deep. It can really only occur between opponents who know each well. It's like a pitcher/batter matchup between veterans who have faced each other a hundred+ times. They know the other's patterns so well, that the battle over what the pitcher is going to throw is much more complex than it appears.

1. This is a lesson on don't give free cards and


follow your first instinct.


2. Nothing to say here. Well done.


3. This is an example of what not to do with position.


4. I would have bet the turn if I felt my opponent


had a ten. By checking, it looks like you eliminated this read.


5. Good bluff at the river, used position correctly.

In the 2-3-5 game, the small blind is on the button.

On hand #2 I think you probably could've made a bigger bet on the river. maybe not though.


good cojones on the last hand.

On hand 1, Obviously you should have made a big bet on the turn, but not reaally for the reasons people have given (although one was close).


When you pick up the club draw you now have the best hand or the best draw. With the second nut straight you have the "key card" with the 7c. ie if the other player has a flush draw he can NOT also have the higher straight (of course he could have J-10 for a straight flush draw, and this brings me to the same point). So, if a club comes on the river and he moves in you have a tough call (or easy fold depending on how you look at it).


This being said, if a rag comes on the river (or say an A, or K)it seems clear you will committ all of your chips with the second nut straight. These reasons combined are the reason why you should move in on the turn (or bet enough to not give odds to your opponant).


You want to make sure he folds (or makes a VERY bad call) with the bigger flush draw or straight flush draw. Clearly he would fold J-10 here probably even as a straight flush draw because he only has 1 card to go.


Would he call with a set? Only you kno the player.


But the most important scenario is the river comparison. It is better to be all in BEFORE the river card. If it brings a flush which you opponent does not have he is unlikley to pay off with the nut straight--yet you would have paid him if you missed--this basically gives him a freeroll for your stack.


When he makes a higher flush you MAY also lose your stack (probably not, but you will lose a significant number of chips).


I know I am rambling, but the gist is that you gave him a free shot at your stack given the range of hands he could have. The only way you can make money by checking the turn is NOT only if he has an overpair, but hits a set with it on the river and makes a play. This is a LOT to hope for. Other than that there are a TON of cards that either slow you down or take your stack.


I like to be in situations where I know I have the best hand or best draw, but when I dont know which, and I may have to pay off with the worst of it, I would rather get it in now. If I need to hit my draw and do I get paid where I wouldn't have otherwise, and when I miss when I needed to hit, I would have lost my stack anyway--at least it gives me sime shot to double up without giving infinate odds to my opponant.

As long as someone tells this non American who the Casper Milquetoast who Bob Ciaffone keeps going on about is.


Bob changed his name about 15 years ago. Casper is his brother.


Fat-Charlie