What would you do?

[texaspimp]

There are 13 people left in the tourney, top 4 get paid. Blinds are 1000-2000. You have approximately 30,000T.

UTG+1 you are dealt A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG raises to 6000

You ??????


Results to follow

[Nick B.]

How much does UTG have left? Unless it is a small amount, say 5 or 6000, I am leaning toward fold.

[Rick Diesel]

I am going to need more information. What are the stack sizes? How long till the blinds go up? How steep is the payout structure? How have your opponents played?

[texaspimp]

UTG has almost identical stack as you.

The table is fairly typical; a couple of LAG's, a couple of TAG's, one or two passive players. In general, all are solid players.

No one has a dominant stack. Blinds will increase in ten minutes to 2000-4000, and double every twenty minutes thereafter. Payout is 50% to win, 30% for second, 20% for third, fourth gets $50. (I realize the percentages would have to change a little for this extra $50).

Please keep the comments coming!

[SossMan]

very player dependent. Some players won't raise UTG w/ less than JJ-AA/AK maybe AQ.

Some will do it w/ JTs.

You really have to narrow his range to find out what you should do.

[dogmeat]

In general they are solid players - from what I have seen in these situations you are usually up against a very similar hand or 88,99. Do you want a coin flip right now? I don't. But I'm a tight player in this spot.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[hurlyburly]

With the whole table yet to act, this is a guaranteed fold for me. I'd have to put him on 99-AA or AK. Even if I knew the rest of the table would fold and watch the show, I couldn't call this. AQ is just too vulnerable.

[texaspimp]

Being a below average player, I re-raised to a total of 16,000T. My thoughts were: He probably has 66-AA or AK outside shot AQ. This player is solid, but has shown a tendency to be a LAG. I thought I could push him off 66-maybe JJ and quite possibly AK and AQ.

After my raise, he exhibited his major tell and then I knew he had J's or better. He called.

The Flop is 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

He checks.

What do you do??

[cowpie]

[ QUOTE ]
After my raise, he exhibited his major tell and then I knew he had J's or better. He called.

The Flop is 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

He checks.

What do you do??

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty obvious. You know he has JJ-AA, so you check. You get a free card for your nut flush. If you move all in he'll call with his JJ-AA and you could lose all your chips.

[JasonK]

I would check and hope you hit the flush on the turn. I definately wouldn't bet into him if you're pretty sure he's got JJ-AA.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Being a below average player, I re-raised to a total of 16,000T. My thoughts were: He probably has 66-AA or AK outside shot AQ. This player is solid, but has shown a tendency to be a LAG. I thought I could push him off 66-maybe JJ and quite possibly AK and AQ.

After my raise, he exhibited his major tell and then I knew he had J's or better. He called.

The Flop is 10 6 2

He checks.

What do you do??

[/ QUOTE ]

Why raise more than half your stack? If you are going to raise, it is all in. I would most likely fold this though since you are still in ep and the raiser is UTG, you should give him a little respect.

[Jason Strasser]

Yuck my lord there is some truly awful advice in this thread.

1) Just because he raised UTG doesnt usually mean he only has AA-JJ.

2) When someone raises PF UTG then checks the flop, you really need some sort of read to have any idea what he has. A tricky player may be slow playing, or giving up. A weak player could be giving up. It's tough to know.

3) Regardless of what your opponent has, I would think checking through on the flop is a horrible move against an average opponent. Sure the line he took is very strange, and worthy of suspicion--but please. You have 2 over-cards and the nut flush, and you could be ahead at the moment (or get your opponent to fold a small pocket pair). If you get raised, you are never going to be a huge dog, and will almost always be a coinflip or a slight favorite.

Why do you check behind? If you are the type to check behind, then fold to a blank on the turn, then don't call this raise preflop. A hand like this loses a lot of value on the turn most of the time. You want to get your money in on the flop when:

a) your hand has the most value
b) you have more folding equity because the pot is smaller

The preflop play is very opponent dependant. I would say that if you have respect for your opponent, calling is silly. Stacks are not very deep, and you could get a caller or raise behind you. However, there are 13 left, so I am assuming you are shorthanded. So I think a lot depends on your opponent in this spot.

Anyhow, just a ramble inspired by some (not from the usual posters) horrible advice in this thread.

-Jason

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck my lord there is some truly awful advice in this thread.

1) Just because he raised UTG doesnt usually mean he only has AA-JJ.

2) When someone raises PF UTG then checks the flop, you really need some sort of read to have any idea what he has. A tricky player may be slow playing, or giving up. A weak player could be giving up. It's tough to know.

3) Regardless of what your opponent has, I would think checking through on the flop is a horrible move against an average opponent. Sure the line he took is very strange, and worthy of suspicion--but please. You have 2 over-cards and the nut flush, and you could be ahead at the moment (or get your opponent to fold a small pocket pair). If you get raised, you are never going to be a huge dog, and will almost always be a coinflip or a slight favorite.

Why do you check behind? If you are the type to check behind, then fold to a blank on the turn, then don't call this raise preflop. A hand like this loses a lot of value on the turn most of the time. You want to get your money in on the flop when:

a) your hand has the most value
b) you have more folding equity because the pot is smaller

The preflop play is very opponent dependant. I would say that if you have respect for your opponent, calling is silly. Stacks are not very deep, and you could get a caller or raise behind you. However, there are 13 left, so I am assuming you are shorthanded. So I think a lot depends on your opponent in this spot.

Anyhow, just a ramble inspired by some (not from the usual posters) horrible advice in this thread.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the entire thread you would note that he Reraised UTG to 16,000.

[cowpie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yuck my lord there is some truly awful advice in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just read yours and you didn't even read his analysis of the hand, so your advice is useless. Thanks for another awful advice.

[ QUOTE ]
1) Just because he raised UTG doesnt usually mean he only has AA-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

texaspimp said that UTG had a tell where he knew UTG had JJ-AA. He did not say he thought UTG had JJ-AA because he raised UTG.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyhow, just a ramble inspired by some (not from the usual posters) horrible advice in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your truly fantastic advice. Next time, read all of his replies before calling all of us idiots.

[Sam T.]

If you KNOW he's got JJ or better, the only option is to check.

It seems unlikely he's going to fold an overpair here, so betting won't win you the hand. More importantly, if he's got the overpair, he is undoubtedly going for a check-raise.

I think this is a FTOP issue - if he showed you rockets or cowboys and then checked, what would you do?

P.S. Give Jason a break. He's a hero.

[cowpie]

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. Give Jason a break. He's a hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, I didn't know he was a hero. Forgive me Jason.

[texaspimp]

I didn't mean to cause such rancor!!

I decided to push at this point for a couple of reasons:

(Please keep in mind I admitted I am a below average player and I am trying to get better via your advice!)

1) His stack is very comparable to mine. My thoughts were pushing here would make him put me on a set or AA, KK, etc.

2) I figured at this point I had between 10 and 14 outs, which would put me about 55-45 dog. The flush, the A's and way outside chance of runner-runner Q.

3) Being the aggressor, I thought I had some fold equity with him. I was wrong!


As you can imagine, he insta-called and turned over the cowboys.

Blank turn, blank river, ballgame.

I sincerely appreciate all advice!