River 3-bet bluff KJs

[Nate tha' Great]

My opponent here was quite aggressive.

What do you think of the river play?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.66 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.83 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (6.83 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>

If you do not like this river play - and most of you I'm guessing will not - what is the best plan? Bet-fold? Check-fold? Check-raise?

[gonores]

Eh, usually the aggressive types don't have a laydown to a 3bet in their arsenal. A check-raise looks pretty unnatural too. I think his check behind on the turn indicates he wants a showdown...perhaps with a hand like TT or JJ. I'd give up here.

But you know all that already. What am I missing?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

if you're trying to get him to fold a better hand, I think they're more willing to fold to checkraises rather than folding to 3-bets. imo.

[1800GAMBLER]

I think the only way you win this is when he also has bluffraised a busted draw and i think that happens a tiny percentage of the time so it's just not worth it (the reason i think this is because it's so common that players do infact check behind top pair and play it like this on the flop - moreso with that ace coming) but if you really do think it's worth it, calling with K high is better than raising.

[astroglide]

if you're trying to get him to fold a better hand, I think they're more willing to fold to checkraises rather than folding to 3-bets. imo.

bingo bango bongo, and also river checkraise bluffs opportunities are extremely rare. if he folds to a threebet here there is a decent possibility king high was good anyway.

it seems you may be a little high on yourself with these posts lately, nate.

EDIT: i still disagree with 1800GAMBLER

[1800GAMBLER]

dude, we agreed. lets hug.

[astroglide]

sorry...

[1800GAMBLER]

fu /images/graemlins/frown.gif .... which part?

[mplspoker]

throwing 90 bucks on the river CAN'T be EV+. Absolutely a joker move.

[astroglide]

my style is impetuous. my defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. i want your heart. i want to eat your children. praise be to allah

[1800GAMBLER]

*hugs*

[elindauer]

Looks great. His raise looks like a resteal, and he's unlikely to have an ace or a 9, as he'd have likely bet them on the turn. On your part though, the reraise looks very legitimate. You'd might have played a nine this way. You can have a set and were planning to check-raise the turn, you might even have AK. Someone inclined to make "great" laydowns might even fold an ace to your reraise.

Granted, you don't want to get in the habit of 3-bet bluffing your missed draws. Once in a while though, the stars are aligned and the perfect opportunity and opponent present themselves.


Good luck.
Eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, usually the aggressive types don't have a laydown to a 3bet in their arsenal. A check-raise looks pretty unnatural too. I think his check behind on the turn indicates he wants a showdown...perhaps with a hand like TT or JJ. I'd give up here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has TT or JJ, why is he raising? Isn't it more likely that he was checking with a draw and missed?

Good luck.
Eric

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]
On your part though, the reraise looks very legitimate. You'd might have played a nine this way. You can have a set and were planning to check-raise the turn, you might even have AK.


[/ QUOTE ]

Again another over-crediter. Do you think he EVEN considered this? (the proof is in his flop/turn play).

[elindauer]

[quoteif he folds to a threebet here there is a decent possibility king high was good anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. Does that mean, given that he bet, he should call the river raise? That'd be something... bet as a bluff, then call for value. This might be the spot though.

Thanks,
Eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On your part though, the reraise looks very legitimate. You'd might have played a nine this way. You can have a set and were planning to check-raise the turn, you might even have AK.


[/ QUOTE ]

Again another over-crediter. Do you think he EVEN considered this? (the proof is in his flop/turn play).

[/ QUOTE ]


Too many pronouns. Can't follow. Do I think who considered what? The proof of what is in who's flop / turn play?

Thanks,
Eric

[1800GAMBLER]

Do you think the other player considered nate's 3 bet to be legit? Infact do you expect him to take more than 2 seconds to call?

Given his flop/turn/river play he is either a genius or misplayed something, which is more likely in the 15/30? If he has misplayed something he is DEF. calling the river.

[SA125]

I looked up impetuous because it sounded so gay. I can't belive I'm impetuous. It's not as bad as it sounds.

[astroglide]

haha mike tyson has a bigger vocab than you

[mike l.]

i like the play. button's play is not consistent with any logical river raising hand with the exception of AA (which is more likely than normal given the preflop and flop action). so that leaves a lot of KQish type hands and other overcards misses. good play.

[Nate tha' Great]

Opponent called and his QQ was good.

File under: read was right, play was probably wrong.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
[quoteif he folds to a threebet here there is a decent possibility king high was good anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. Does that mean, given that he bet, he should call the river raise? That'd be something... bet as a bluff, then call for value. This might be the spot though.

Thanks,
Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

the best line i have seen all year!!!! ROFL, omg!! this is exactly what i want my fishes to do /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Stork]

Nate perhaps you would've been successful if you had bet the turn representing aces and led the river.