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View Full Version : No Limit Myths continued


08-13-2001, 08:50 PM
I want to clarify some things from the post I made titled "No Limit Myths" (see below).


The main point of that post can be summed up as: Many players misunderstand how and when to be aggressive in a no limit game, and those players who think they can beat a no limit game through sheer aggression without even looking at their cards are horribly, tragically misled. (tournaments not included) There's so much more to the game it's like saying you can win the Indy 500 by driving really fast.


Obiously, you MUST be able to play aggressively to win. But you have to be aggressive in the right spots. In fact, I believe we shouldn't even think of aggression as a tool or skill. It's a by-product of all the other weapons we bring to the table. Knowing your players, for instance. Take any no limit situation and ask what to do. The answer is almost always "It depends on the player". Even something as simple as "should I call an all-in bet with KK?". Depends on who moved in (and some other things but mostly that).


That's the biggest key to the game. Knowing your opponents is so important that I would say you should not tangle over a pot with an unknown player without a hand that is very close to the nuts. Play nothing but straightforward poker against an unknown player until you get a line on his play. If you're good, this should not take longer than ten to twenty minutes at the most. Until then, bet good hands for value against him but otherwise steer clear. Once you know how the guy plays, your decisions will be so much more profitable that it's not worth investing your chips before you have that info.


Just a few minutes of patience can save you your whole stack.


If knowing the players is the most important thing, then combatting that by changing gears is next in importance. If the other players are allowed to get a good line on your play, then you've let them master the most important part of the game! You MUST change gears to prevent them from doing this to you. Of course, this turns into a war of escalation when experts are involved. Try to avoid those games. :)


I also think that the most under-rated skill in no limit is playing stack sizes well. You could be in two situations where the cards, position, and players are the same but the right move is different each time because of the stack sizes. Everyone knows position is of paramount importance in no limit, but I'm starting to believe that stack sizes are more important than position. But I guess that is a topic for another post.


But the bottom line is that reckless blanket aggression is terrible. For a good player, aggressive plays are made after he has analyzed the situation by knowing his players, changing gears at the right time, playing stack sizes, and playing position. Aggression is not even really something that he focuses on as a part of his game. It's a by-product of the other skills that are far more important.


Put another way, if a player is not playing aggressively enough, it's probably because he doesn't know the players well, doesn't change gears well, doesn't understand playing stack sizes, and doesn't play position well. If you get those four skills in shape you'll play with the right amount of aggression just as a matter of course.


natedogg

08-14-2001, 01:46 PM
Thanks natedogg for your latest poker post, not to mention your prior thoughts. I appreciate your insights, which are far more interesting that specific hand analysis.


This is because I play in the UK, where you're more likely to be confronted with 6-card Omaha/hi-lo, 6-card Irish, Fiery Cross, Chuck Two or Paduci, than anything more er, cerebral shall we say. If the dealer chooses Hold'em a howl usually goes round the table "because you can't get a pot".


When I play at home with the casino boys I at least can reign in the worst excesses, and choose a round of no limit Hold'em once in a while. Then the howl is "it's too dangerous", generally from someone who's just chosen their round of English low (don't ask, er ... it's actually rather good). Follow that with a round of 2-7 no limit Lowball and you really do have some grumpy old men on your hands.


Regards, Tim

08-14-2001, 08:46 PM
This is an excellent post Natedogg. I am not an experienced no-limit player and can't comment on specific techniques or whatever, but what I took from your post applies to all forms of poker and in some ways to any complex endeavor. I think anytime an expert at anything does something it can look simple to an under-appreciative outsider. By under-appreciative I mean someone who lacks full knowledge and skill. Thus, the observer takes away only part of an idea that they then misapply. I don't play poker for a living, but I do notice that in my field, many new or inexperienced people can misconstrue what it is someone who is good at it does in a particular situation. They say, "Well all there is to it is..." when there is a whole lot more to it. Some are not educable, but the smart ones figure out that there is more to it than first appears.

08-15-2001, 01:54 AM
Great posts! Seriously, have you thought about writing a book or something similar to Mason's Poker Essays except about big bet poker? You have tremendous analytical skills which you are able to articulate clearly and consisely.


Bruce