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08-03-2001, 02:53 PM
AJ's 2-3-5 game, Sam and I each have around $1K.


I limp second with A9 one off cutoff. Sam calls in BB. Flop 962 (or close) rainbow. Sam bets $40 into $50 pot. I call. Heads up. Turn a K. I'm in the one seat; Sam's in the eight; dealer is blocking my view. After a good 10 seconds or more, dealer turns to me and says "check to you." I say check.


Sam then says he didn't act. Dealer makes no comment. After around 30 seconds, Sam bets $140. I fold.


Had be simply bet $140, I would have called. Since he knew I'd intended to check behind, I knew that he was coming over the top big time if I raised and that he would bet huge on the river regardless. Someone suggested I should've called the floor. At Lucky Chances I would have, but at AJ's I was pretty sure they'd let it stand.


Sam's bet rubbed me the wrong way, especially after that 30 second pause to think it through. So, what is the correct ruling, and how out of line was the bet?


Matt

08-03-2001, 03:32 PM
For the most part I think the dealers at AJs are very good. But they often have problems during the no-limit game since its only spread once/week. There are two dealers that just should not be allowed to deal no limit and there are 3 that do a very good job. The rest are ok. who was the dealer?


As for Sam, I think there's no question that his lack of a signal was a check by default and I think there is a decent chance the floor would've ruled in your favor. I know many of the long time players really rag on the AJ's Floormen but I think this the result of bad decisions in the past and is not an indication of how they currently make rulings. In any event you should have at least tried to get the correct ruling. I had a similiar situation several weeks ago where Harry said I checked when in fact I had not. I let him have his free card and it cost me the pot. In retrospect I should've definitely called for a floor decision.

08-03-2001, 04:31 PM
If the dealer said, "Check to you," then that's the action after you check. The dealer screwed up if sam didn't say anything, but it would be hard to justify allowing Sam's bet to stand.


Having said that, I do suspect that it was a dealer mistake. I doubt Sam would check and then claim not to. Of course, he'd happily take advantage of you given that he knew you weren't betting there.


- target

08-03-2001, 10:25 PM
Part of Sam's cunning is that he lulls players into happy friendly times. Guards go down, and he's ever ready to strike.


This is a case where your high fiber ethics can get in your way, while not getting in his. (But don't ever change!) This doesn't mean Sam is shady, it just means he's playing a slightly different game than you are, with less fiber, but still within bounds by a jury review.


Your only means of equalizing is to call the floor when anything fishy goes down. If Morris comes over, try to get some entertainment value out of his stammering. The main thing is, accept the ruling graciously and carry on unflusterred. Arguing with the floor is tilt food.


AJ's has the best no-limit dealers around because they've been spreading no-limit there since the late 80's and they have relatively little employee turnover.


Tommy

08-04-2001, 11:47 AM
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08-05-2001, 03:25 PM
I've never played in this game and don't know any of the players, but a similar thing happened to me in Las Vegas against a well known player with a less than sunny disposition. No name/no packdrill, but let's just say his initials are JCP.


On the river in a 75/150 O/8 game the board on the river had several straights and no low possible. I had two pair. JCP had checked and called my semi-bluff bet on 4th street.


On the river, JCP made a movement with his bills, which were in his left hand. I interpreted it as a check. The dealer said "check", and I said "two pair" almost immediately. JCP then wanted to bet. The floor was called and the check stood. JCP had a non-nut straight.


Differences from your situation: (a) I could see the other player, and (b) the other player made a definite motion capable of being interpreted as a check.


I would say that although dealers do make mistakes, they would very rarely call "check" without some stimulus (the opposite happens much more often - a dealer not paying attention fails to call a check). If the other player induced the dealer to speak then I think the check should stand, and I would definitely ask the dealer in your situation what the other player had done, if anything.


But in a high limit or big bet game in particular, I would not agree with anyone saying that silence is an implied check. Especially after a long pause it just means the player is thinking, which he's entitled to do.


I would also say that an important factor is not just how long he thought before the dealer said "check" but how long you then thought before you checked back. If the other player had time to say "hold the action I didn't speak", then it's much worse than if you checked back instantly.


The 30 second pause just makes it clear that the other player was planning how to take advantage of the situation. Not very nice, but it doesn't really make any difference to the merits of the situation once the action has gone back to him.


I'd definitely call the floor on this one.


Oh no!! Not again.

08-20-2001, 08:05 PM
if sam had time to correct the dealers mistake before you said check then its a no brainer and a checked hand. if you check real quickly then its another matter and i dont know how the floor should rule. but id tend to let sam bet as if you dont you may be forcing him to lose a hand he may have won by betting.