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bisonbison
09-29-2004, 09:33 PM
the button is very loose and pretty aggressive.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.66 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.66 BB

lil'
09-29-2004, 10:01 PM
This is one of those turns. You can feel the raise coming before you bet. It's very hard not to bet here HU, but it's also a risk, because there is a good chance you need the free card more than he does.

So you have to check here sometimes and bet sometimes. There's no pat answer. I'd check more often than I'd bet against this type of opponent, fearing the raise and knowing his looseness makes it more likley he could have hit this board.

bisonbison
09-29-2004, 10:12 PM
thanks for the response. This was a tough hand, so I figured a lot of people would be hesitant to respond.

Heads-up play is tough. Especially with a decent draw against a guy who's 50% loose.

dejableu
09-29-2004, 10:19 PM
It's easy to second-guess the turn bet in hindsight, but I don't see anything wrong with your play. That turn card was a good card for you. I like the bet because many players, in a heads-up situation, fold there when they haven't hit anything.

cjx
09-29-2004, 10:32 PM
I think I play it exactly the same as you. I hate to do it because I feel like it really invites LAGs and observant TAGs to take more shots than usual, particularly semi-bluffs.

I bet the turn for two reasons; you might have the best hand and you can stand a raise with a solid draw open ended with Ace probably being good too. I certainly can't see checking the turn (or flop for the same reason) as I think it'd be a tragedy to allow a worse hand a free card here.

cjx

StellarWind
09-30-2004, 12:25 AM
Check-call the turn because your opponent is aggressive.

Case 1: You are behind. Clearly betting is not helpful to say the least.

Case 2: You are ahead. He will probably bluff in an attempt to fold your overcards. The pot is very small and on average he doesn't have many outs--he's very fortunate if he has six because your draw dominates so many cards. Calling this bluff is much more profitable then making him fold his outs.

Another advantage of checkcalling is that it prevents you from being bluff-raised off the best hand. I don't see how you can call the river, but it is certainly possible that you've been had.

bisonbison
09-30-2004, 12:29 AM
Stella, you'd have to check-call the river too, pretty much regardless of what came out, eh?

JimRivett
09-30-2004, 12:32 AM
Looks fine to me, I would play it the same way.

Regards, Jim

sfer
09-30-2004, 12:33 AM
I do that a lot with Ace high heads-up and out of position to a LAG. I have showdown value and I like to call.

Plus, you can't...

bisonbison
09-30-2004, 12:37 AM
Okay. I don't mind not folding, it's just not a play I've been using much at all because it makes me feel like a calling station.

Cerril
09-30-2004, 12:45 AM
I kind of feel stuck between a rock and a hard place on the turn. Obviously if you catch you're golden, if you don't catch you have two lines -

check/call intending to check/fold if you miss
bet/call intending to check/call if you miss.

I'm never sure what's good HU. I think against the LAG check/call - check/call might be an option. Your hand could be good but you have (by your read) little to no folding equity on the turn (you might be able to weasel a free card if he's seen you checkraise enough times, but I could never count on that). So you're left with trying to see the river as cheaply as possible, since I don't really feel like your outs plus the chance your hand is good add up to a profitable bet/call. But I miss a lot of nuances.

You can make your decision on the river based on whether you think the board can't give him a worse hand (a check/call wouldn't be terrible in this case)

StellarWind
09-30-2004, 01:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Stella, you'd have to check-call the river too, pretty much regardless of what came out, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's the idea. Given your description of this player you could easily have the best hand. I don't see how you can fold the river after a 1-bet turn, regardless of who bet the turn.

This hand is going to cost you 2BB when you don't improve and lose. I don't see any correct way to avoid that.

The advantages of checkcalling versus betting the turn are 1) you cannot be raised and 2) you induce him to bluff without adequate pot odds when he is behind.