$12-$24, open limping with AA

[Fianchetto]

Couple hands from a B&M $12-$24 session. Not as loose as usual, but there are still at least 2-3 bad players in the game, most of them are to my right. To my left are 3 of the tighter players in the game.

A couple of orbits before this hand I picked up AA in MP, I open raised, it was folded around to the big blind who called. He check/folded to my flop bet on a raggedy board.

Anyway, here it is:

I'm in the cutoff with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif, folded around to me and I open limp.

Button calls, SB mucks, BB knuckles the felt. 3 to the flop.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, I bet, button mucks, BB raises, I 3-bet, he calls.

Turn: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB bets, I raise, he calls after pondering for a moment.

River: T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, I check.

Whadya think?

Results to follow.

=================

Here is another hand I've been thinking about:

2 MP limpers, I raise on the button with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif, both blinds call

5 players (5BB)

Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

checked to me, I bet, 3 callers

4 players (7BB)

Turn: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

checked to me, I check ??

River: T /images/graemlins/club.gif

check, bet, call, I muck.

Comments?

[mplspoker]

Hand #1. Raise Preflop. Bet river. Obvious.
Hand #2. I would bet turn and check river. A lot of money in there and maybe get called by another ace or checkraised by a full house, but easy muck on turn if check raised and hand is probably good if just called by 1 opponent.

My thoughts.

[elysium]

hi b6 Bb2

hand 1) you must bet the river. this opponent has KQ and nothing else. you missed a value bet here.

hand 2) you should go ahead and bet on the turn. if you get raised, you should probably give it up. for this reason, checking has merit because when the board is double paired, you run a high risk of getting check-raised. however, you need to also consider which pairs double paired the board. if TT and JJ double pair it, your overs are in bad shape unless the opponents who check to you would never check-raise to you. and i think that's what you have here fian. these opponents will never check-raise you for value.

it is often correct to check-down the turn in similar situations to this one. not here though fian. in this situation, you must bet. and it's almost a bet for value. when the T hits on the river, you correctly folded. that looks like a floating monster. yeah fian, that's what a big boat looks like. have you ever bet on the turn, gotten a couple folds, a relatively harmless card hits on the river, and a folder jumps up, snaps his fingers, and says 'shucks'? ever see that? no? well. you're not the only one who throws away a winner on occasion, and silently grimaces.

this opponent would have folded had you bet. you would have possibly taken it down on the turn. true, most of the time you would be correct in checking it down. but not here fian. here, you must bet. you must bet the turn.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

hand 1) you must bet the river. this opponent has KQ and nothing else. you missed a value bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I thought when I read hand #1. You should have bet the river.

SpaceAce

[Fianchetto]

Hand#1
Yes, I missed a river bet. He had KJo and MHIG

The hands I put him on were a King, a diamond draw, maybe a pair and a diamond draw. So when the flush came on the river I checked it through, but I should have bet it.

Hand#2
They chop the pot as they both have QTo

Elysium, I think you got his one exactly right.
In this specific situation my check on the turn lost the pot for me. It just seemed odd, 3 players still in the hand with me, could they all be on draws/overcards? I didn't think so, but I was wrong.

[rory]

Bet the river in hand #1.

Hand #2 is OK. 3 callers on that board someone probably has you beat. Nice check behind on the turn.

[Doubling12]

The book "Inside the Poker Mind" has a hand similar in texture to your #1 hand. Think about it from your opponents' point of view - the river makes it extremely likely that if he checks, you will check behind with a lot of hands that would have called 1 bet. So he has to bet with a flush. Plus if you trust your turn read, people don't think when calling a bet on a draw, they just push the money out.

[Fianchetto]

Very well put, and it is how I felt after the hand when I went back over it in my head.

I need to get better at doing this type of analysis quickly on the river.

[DiamondDave]

In hand #2, bet the turn and take the free showdown if you don't improve.