kk hand - mistake on the flop?

[stoxtrader]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG+2 (t660)
MP1 (t1745)
MP2 (t885)
MP3 (t1225)
Hero (t2399)
Button (t2810)
SB (t1535)
BB (t640)
UTG (t3200)
UTG+1 (t705)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t20, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to t95</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t350</font>, Button calls t350, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls t255.

Flop: (t1100) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t2049 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: t3149
<font color="green">Main Pot: t1100 (t1100), won by Hero.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t2049 (t2049), returned to Hero.</font>

[willie]

i think you played it a little bit too fast, but if you're afraid of someone on the flush draw then you definitely pushed them away forcefully.

It really comes down to how much you fear what they have in their hand. I'll typically bet the pot here. They called your raise so more than likely they missed on the flop (and if anyone called, they'd have a set). You want them to try to catch up a bit, an ace would be disastrous.......(forgive my stream of consciousness writing).

played a litle quickly but the pot was of decent size to take down right away so I think it's a good play. I'd rather take that one down than get turned or rivered.

[swimfan]

I think you played it fine. Given pot size, if you make a pot-sized bet you're putting half your stack in. Which is why I would push, especially given pf action+flush draw. With a push on this flop and pf action, you may get a caller with 88-QQ. At worst where everyone folds, you're adding 50% to your stack (which really is not a "worst").

Anyway, I would not slowplay here, I'd play it the same way.

[Chief911]

I think that's a solid play. You want the pot, and want it now. No reason to let someone catch up and wreck you this early in a tourney.

Nice play.

Nick

[SossMan]

I really like this play for the following reasons:

1. Your bet looks suspiciously like AK or a flush draw.

2. Many players will not be able to get away from an overpair there (88-QQ).

3. If there happens to be a flush draw out, you charge the maximum.

If you make a PSB you will be committed anyway, so a push can't be bad. The pot represents 50% of your stack, so go get it.

good play, you just got unlucky that they didn't have an overpair.

[stoxtrader]

my initial thought when the hand occurred was that I should have bet pot, but then after thinking about it, I agree that

a) a pot sized bet makes me pot committed

and

b) the two flush on board makes a slowplay much less correct.

so now I like it, tx guys.

[betgo]

Your opponents called your second reraise, so you have to assume they have high cards or a fairly big pair. I would put a solid player on QQ or AK, but with two callers, there may be a loose call. With this flop, all you are worried about is a club or an ace. One of them probably has an ace and it's about 8-1 against either of them has two clubs. I would milk it with a 1/2-3/4 pot bet and push on the turn. If you make a weak seeming bet, someone may even come over top.

[Bernas]

Why let someone get in cheap on a flush draw.
And you wonder why people get upset when their AA or KK get cracked.

I think you made the best play.

[betgo]

Who says there is a flush draw. If your opponents have pairs, they don't have flush draws. Yeh, they could catch a set. I wouldn't play this real slow, but I don't like the immediate push.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Who says there is a flush draw. If your opponents have pairs, they don't have flush draws. Yeh, they could catch a set. I wouldn't play this real slow, but I don't like the immediate push.

[/ QUOTE ]

look at the stack sizes, betgo. Only one of his opponents has him covered. The other one only has about 800 left. The pot represents 50% over 50% of his stack, he's likely to get called anyway, another club might kill his action on the turn, a PSB commits him to the pot anyway....all this points to a push on the flop.

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
Who says there is a flush draw. If your opponents have pairs, they don't have flush draws.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not saying that a flush draw is the only possibility here but it is one of them.
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't play this real slow, but I don't like the immediate push. .

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play it anything but slow you are committed anyways and if that is the case you should be pushing.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like this play for the following reasons:

1. Your bet looks suspiciously like AK or a flush draw.

2. Many players will not be able to get away from an overpair there (88-QQ).

3. If there happens to be a flush draw out, you charge the maximum.

If you make a PSB you will be committed anyway, so a push can't be bad. The pot represents 50% of your stack, so go get it.

good play, you just got unlucky that they didn't have an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree with SossMan.

Also, there is a psychological part to this scenario. It sends a message to the table that you might be playing for all your chips in a pot that you raise. I want players to be afraid of my raises, because it buys me a lot of pots later when the blinds start to climb. No use dicking around with what has a enormous probability to be the best hand right now, but could be beaten later with 12 possible cards.

[patrick dicaprio]

no reason to bet all in here, as you will only be called if beaten. how often do we see this error here, at least once per day. i usually bet the pot here but i wouldnt go all in here if i had double the pots size.

Pat

[stoxtrader]

I can think of a number of hands that i beat that might call.

[Malcom Reynolds]

If you make a pot sized bet, you're pot committed anyway. So push.

[betgo]

Yes, I know you are pot committed, but why make everyone fold. You have a pretty strong hand and you want to get maximum value for it.

[kdotsky]

[ QUOTE ]
Who says there is a flush draw. If your opponents have pairs, they don't have flush draws. Yeh, they could catch a set. I wouldn't play this real slow, but I don't like the immediate push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with SossMan, there's numerous reasons making a small bet is BAD.

If they have pairs, there's a very good chance your all-in gets called anyway. If they don't have pairs and actually do have a flush draw, then you're giving them right odds to draw with your weak "milking bet".

Go all in and get called by a pair? Or bet a little bet and get called by a flush draw? Seems obvious to me, since the pairs might call you anyway.

Another factor: If you bet a little, and the flush card card or a high card comes, you're screwed. Either your action is killed when someone else is holding a pair and fears the overcard/flush, or someone actually hit the flush and you have to make a big decision, or someone with a pair could push you off your bigger pair when they represent the flush.

Pushing all-in is obviously the most +EV move. The pot is already large and is a large increase to your stack. Not getting called is not a problem - KK in a 3-way pot with draws on the board is by no means a monster.

[swimfan]

[ QUOTE ]
look at the stack sizes, betgo

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not the comprehending type, are you?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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look at the stack sizes, betgo


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You're not the comprehending type, are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a good argument, you don't need to insult the other person.