How SSH paied for it self 1 hour after I bought it

[SirFoldsAlot]

Game: Party 5/10 Just sat down after reading a few chapters of Small Stakes Hold'em. Now I have been playing for a while and while I have some leaks in my game I am a consistant winner. I am just not maximizing my earning portential, hence purchasing the book. Enough history, back to the game.

First hand I am in the BB with Q3o. Bet in EP, 7 players see the flop.

flop comes 9, K, J rainbow

I check, bet, call, raise, fold, call, fold, back to me

Normally I am gone here, but I though of the book and realized I was getting better than 10.5 to 1 so I called.

Turn brings a 3, wow, now even more outs. Bet, call , folded to me I call, call

River 10s

Yippee, I hit, bet, call, I raise, 2 caller

I drag a 171.00 pot. Book has paid for itself and a lot more. Any critique on how I played this?

[STLantny]

ya your math is off. theres 7 sb in the pot when the flop comes. Add 1 from a better, 2 from a raiser, and 2 from a cold caller. Thats 13:2, on your money, you could say 14:2 if you want, but the action aint done yet. BAD CALL.

[eric5148]

Where in SSH does it say to call a raise in the BB with Q3o?

[Evan]

Did you call a raise with Q3o?

[joker122]

SSH would definately advocate folding the flop. Also, you're not getting anywhere close to 10.5:1.

[STLantny]

First hand I am in the BB with Q3o. Bet in EP, 7 players see the flop.

Ya that confused me, i wasnt sure if there was a raise or what? Either way you butchered the hand. (not to offend anyone who cuts meat).

[eric5148]

If it was raised preflop your mistake is calling the preflop raise. Otherwise it's ok.

If it wasn't raised preflop, your mistake was calling the flop because your pot odds are 6.5:1 not 10.5:1.

[SirFoldsAlot]

na my typeing is off there was $47 in the pot before i called. just checked the HH

[jluker7]

Fold Preflop.

[eric5148]

Was it or was it not raised preflop?

[Chicanist]

[ QUOTE ]
na my typeing is off there was $47 in the pot before i called. just checked the HH

[/ QUOTE ]

so ... you were getting 4.7 to 1? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[SirFoldsAlot]

I got a free play in the BB, i will fix the post

[SirFoldsAlot]

I got a free play in the BB, i will fix the post

[eric5148]

[ QUOTE ]
I got a free play in the BB, i will fix the post

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, then your mistake was on the flop because you were not getting correct pot odds.

[SirFoldsAlot]

Dealt Q3o in BB, I get a free play as 8 players take the flop. $40 in the pot

Flop: 9h,Kd, Jc

SB checks
I check
Bet
Bet
Raise
Fold
Call
Fold
I call
Call

Turn: 3h
I Check
Check
Bet
Call
Fold
I call
UTG calls

River 10s

The rest is history

If my call on the flop is wrong, somebody explain it ot me. I have 4 outs, so breal even is 10.5 to 1 correct?

[Chicanist]

At the time the action gets back to you there are 14SB in the pot. You need to call 2.

14:2 = 7:1
not 10.5:1

edit: you're correct that 10.5:1 are the odds you need, but you seem to be forgetting the fact that you have to call 2 bets here, not just 1

[SirFoldsAlot]

Note to self, get better at math

[me454555]

If you needed this book to figure out that calling a gutshot getting 10.5:1 on you're money you probobly shouldn't be playing 5/10. Thats just pot odds

[SnakeRat]

You are not drawing to the nuts, and could very well be drawing to a split.
Also when you called those 2 cold on the flop there is a chance it could be 3-bet or even capped.

This 10.5:1 figure is overly optimistic, and the pot wasnt laying you even close to that.

[SirFoldsAlot]

One would think :P

I hardly ever call gutshots, so here is just an example of me reading something and then doing something stupid to my game. I decided to read this book because I do play weak tight. Generally I dont calculate pot odds exactly and thats a leak in my game, so here I am trying to improve it by thinking I am justified to call, when actually I am not and just got lucky.

[SirFoldsAlot]

Your absolutely correct. Yesterday I would have never made this call, today I read a few chapters, muck up my math and think I am hero. Now I am humbled and smarter.

[rjb03]

1 hour after you bought it? Maybe you should have read it first.

[MaxJulian]

Hopefully you didn't explain your pot odds justification to the enraged suckout victim you bludgeoned.

[SirFoldsAlot]

Here I am thinking I plugged a leak in my game (my general rule has been never to call gutshots unless I have other outs) only to get crucified here. Which is great, since I may have very well added a leak to my game. So thank you for helping me out here.

[SirFoldsAlot]

no i didn't, thankfully, because I was prepared too

[PokeHer]

use bison's hand converter. just copy the HH into the first field, convert it and copy the converted text into the 2+2 post field.

http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi

[SirFoldsAlot]

TY, that would have helped

[SA125]

Don't feel so bad. Once you push that submit button, it's too late. The bad news is your odds calculations and play seemed like it could use some fine tuning. The good news is you're a consistent winner on the 5-10 Party. The ironic part is that there's post after post from guys who know all about the odds and play well and say they can't beat that game. Go figure.

[SirFoldsAlot]

The 5-10 I am avg 1.5BB per 100, so i am hardly killing it, I jump in the occasionally after haveing success at 2/4 and 3/6. The 3/6 tables are my favorite at party where I am at 2.78BB per 100 after 15K hands

[Jeff W]

He needs better than 10.5:1 pot odds to call because he's drawing to an inside 1-card straight that is not the nuts. If he had say 8T on a J72 board, then he needs 10.5:1 implied odds to call.

[sthief09]

*shudder*

read the book again

[Ralph Wiggum]

.

[ThePimpulator]

Well, even though you messed up, it was SSH that caused it so it still paid for itself! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[me454555]

You don't have to be exact with your potodds but just somewhere in the ball park. 11:1 to call a gutshot is the same as getting 4:1 to call a 4 flush.

[stinkypete]

has nobody here heard of implied odds?

[stir]

2.78 BB/100 over 15K at $3/6 and can't even compute pot odds.

This absolutely amazes me.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

What are pot odds?

[junkmail3]

Pot odds are one of the fundamental concepts that you must understand when playing poker. This stuff is essential to winning play (online espically), since it is tougher to determine pot odds online then it is to playing at your local B&M.

'Pot odds' is the likelyhood that your opponent is stoned.

[SA125]

"2.78 BB/100 over 15K at $3/6 and can't even compute pot odds."

That's funny.

"Pot odds' is the likelyhood that your opponent is stoned"

That's hysterical.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Here I am thinking I plugged a leak in my game (my general rule has been never to call gutshots unless I have other outs) only to get crucified here

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing Ed's book does is harp on knowing every single out and getting the math clear about it. Since pots can be so large so easily in lower limit games, you have to be sure you're not overlooking odds and getting out too early.

It's good that you're thinking more of the math now. "General rules" like never calling an inside straight unless you have other outs may be poor ones or good ones(I think that's a poor one), but either way, they're not enough to base your play on. You need to be thinking in terms of the math in a concrete way, not abstract rules.

You can sometimes come up with some pretty odd looking calls or raises and still be mathematically correct in making them, while "doing the sensible thing" according to some rule or preconceived notion can actually be a terrible play.

[JinX11]

More importantly, why is the pot getting odds? I don't understand this - it's *my* money that is comprising a large portion of the pot, and, yet, it wants *more*?!?

If anything, the pot should be giving me odds!

[KowCiller]

Why do you say it's tougher to determine pot odds online? You have the #s right in front of you. At a B&M game, you got the numbers in your noggin /images/graemlins/confused.gif

KoW

[MaxPower]

I think you lost Miller Bucks on the flop.