Bad Play - and.... after it all, bet again?

[kurto]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed)

UTG ($27.80)
Hero ($11.85)
MP2 ($6.75)
CO ($23.20)
Button ($23.90)
SB ($10.15)
BB ($23.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, Hero calls $0.25, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to $1.25</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $1, Hero calls $1.

There was a lot of what I suspected was 'stealing' at this table. Most of the table, including the BB would raise with nearly any 2 overcards. For starters, anyone think this call was too lose 3 handed for this raise?

Flop: ($3.85) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets $0.75</font>, Hero calls $0.75, CO folds.

The weak bet told me BB missed the flop. Which reinforced in my head that we were probably looking at overcards. I merely called mainly because they were only fives. Too weak?

Turn: ($5.35) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets $1.5</font>, Hero calls $1.50.

Let's face it, BB raised her bet but it seems unlikely that this card helped any hand she would have raised with except pocket 6's. And if there was a set here, her bet is still awfully weak. Right?

River: ($8.35) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

OK, here's where I think I wussed out. He checked which means her hand didn't improve. Unless BB is trying to CR a flush or has a higher pair (unlikely unless it was a PP and the flop was too scary for a river bet.) But I check. Again... because its just a pair of 5s and there's 4 overcards. Should I have bet or been thankful that I made a decent pot with such a weak hand? Or should I never have played this hand in the first place?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Final Pot: $8.35

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has 5h 5d (one pair, fives).
BB has Qc Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins $8.35. </font>

[Dominic]

A few notes:

I'd never call a pre-flop raise with low PP unless I was calling less than 7% of my stack...you were calling roughly 10% of your stack in the hopes of hitting a set...the implied odds are there, but it's just too big of a chunk to take out of your stack on this hand...

anyway, a little loose but not horrible, as I'm sure you're aware...

2nd point: your call on the flop IS horrible. Either fold or, if you really think the others missed, raise. And don't be a pussie about it, either - raise the pot! As it is, you gave her two more chances of hitting her overcards.

Now, if she calls the flop raise, you have to check/fold the rest of the way. But you and I both know she would've folded to a flop re-raise, right?

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

on the turn, I raise here, too...although since you failed to raise the flop, it might seem suspect to a half-decent player and they may play back at you.

I think you know how you played this hand and how to play it better in the future...you just needed some reinforcement.

[kurto]

Thanks, Dominic.

Regarding the stack size-- I always sit at the tables with the minimum stack size ($10 at this table). Is that bad? Since nearly every hand was raised to a $1-$1.25 preflop, ANY hand I play would be 10% of my stack until I built it up. Is it bad to sit with the minimum then because you can't play hands like low pocket pairs?

"your call on the flop IS horrible. Either fold or, if you really think the others missed, raise. And don't be a pussie about it, either - raise the pot!" You're right. I wussed out. I think my fear comes from playing too much limit. People always call with overcards and one seems to get outdrawn too often. I should realize the beauty of NL is that you can price them out of redrawing.

"But you and I both know she would've folded to a flop re-raise, right?" Tough to say on Pokerstars... so many refuse to respect raises if they have 2 overcards. Though if I was ahead, she only had 6 outs.... You're right though, I'm just deliberating as I type! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Pokerho]

I personally think that sitting down with anything less than the maximum allowable stack is a disadvantage to you. Without going into all the science of implied odds, etc. you can just look at it like this: You can always fold if you don't want to risk your stack, but you can't ever put more money in when you have the nuts.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally think that sitting down with anything less than the maximum allowable stack is a disadvantage to you. Without going into all the science of implied odds, etc. you can just look at it like this: You can always fold if you don't want to risk your stack, but you can't ever put more money in when you have the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]


good point...

and to elaborate...if I have $50 and you have $10, how can you ever possibly bully me out of a pot? In other words, you lose one of the prime advantages of NL poker - being able to bet a large enough amount to scare off draws, etc. And you'll rarely be able to bluff or semi-bluff without going all-in.

You've got $8...you raise pre-flop to $1.50 with AK....3 others call, so there's $6.50 in the pot (including the BB who folded)...the flop comes A high with 2 spades (you don't have spades)...even if you go all-in - $6.50 - now there's $13.00 in the pot - the flush draws are getting the right pot odds to call your all-in - AND they know they're going to get a chance to see both the turn and the river, since you can no longer bet...

But if you had started the hand with $25...you could bet $8 at that flop - or more - to discourage the flush draws.

That's just one scenario where you are at a disadvantage. When you're playing a short stack, you only have one move - all-in. You can't waste a mini-bet on a draw, you can't steal the blinds...in short, you can't play good, aggressive NL poker.

If the maximum buy-in is too rich for your blood, drop down a level. But always buy in for the maximum.

: /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JasonK]

I would have raised the pot on the flop.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

This looks like a good limit play. But, if your read is bad, you are far behind.