SSHE and Results

[7n7]

Just curious as to how quickly any of you have seen positive results after reading SSHE.

Prior to reading SSHE, I began recording my 3/6 results on a per 100 hour (and total) basis. The 1st 100 hours I was unprofitable. The second 100 hours, still unprofitable, but I had decreased my loss/hr and variance my more than half. I did this primarily by playing tighter at my games.

I then picked up SSHE and began to try and apply the concepts to my 3rd 100 hours. Thus far, not so good. Specifically at 3/6 on Party Poker, a lot of the concepts seem to backfire (i.e. raising w/middle pair and an overcard, trying to protect your had with check-raises, capping a large multiway pot with QQ, etc.).

I realize that I'm still mastering the concepts in this book and that I haven't put enough hours in to accurately depict "long term", but I was just curious if anyone else had experienced any "growing pains" initially.

[Ralph Wiggum]

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious as to how quickly any of you have seen positive results after reading SSHE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't beat the 0.02/0.04, but then after reading a chapter of it, I crushed the game for almost 67.24 cents / hour. Then I read chapter two, I was so tricky/agressive/cool, that I was able to jump up to 5/10, and within a few hours, I owned the table, and didn't lose a hand for a whole hour. Now I've finished the book, I am playing the 724/1448 game, and crushing it for whatever a good player makes there. I am a good playa, b/c I've played a few hours after reading SSH. The only logical explanation for flipped thru SSH, and now not being able to win after 100hrs, is that you can't read g00t.

Sooted Aces,
RW

ps. Posts of this nature are becoming a pet peeve of mine. Do a search, and find the previous post, from a few days ago, or a few days ago before that, or a few days ago...

[MoreWineII]

Growing pains - online, yes. B&M's, no. But I attribute some of that swinginess to the nature of those games.

B&M games, with their overly loose-passive nature, seem to be much easier to beat consistently using 2+2 concepts, at least for me.

Overall, since I read SSH and, more importantly, started posting here, my results have been positive and I feel much much better about my game. Still have a looooooooong way to go though.

[tolbiny]

7n7-
take this the right way- Nearly everyone on this board who is applying SSHE well Was A Winning Player Before reading the book. Clarkmeister has a cycle of 5 books to read for a beginner, search in the books/software forum.
The book is for people who already beat the game, but want to Crush it. You are missing a lot of important intermediary steps if you attempt to go from a losing player to destroying the games from one book.

[Gally327]

hey-
I've been having some toruble playing as agressively at the table as the book suggests. I am currently reading Psycology of Poker to try and get over that hump. I think I invest too much emotion into the game because I play with money that I need. But if you are playing in the right game for your bankroll(unlike me)or are just an agressive player, the book can really help you be slectivley aggressive in the right spots which is huge for playing low limits.
The book doesn't go into the theory behind a lot of what it says. It should have been a lot longer with more theory for people who haven't read many poker books on thoery, but I think if you read like TOP or THFAP before reading the book again, I think you will get a lot more out of it.
Flop 'em dead,
Ryan

[jeffseib]

After reading SSHE, my hourly rate went into the toilet for about three weeks. Then I re-read it and now my hourly is 3.5 BB/100 at Party 1/2. This up from 2BB/100. Of course, I still don't have enough data yet to say that this isn't a rush, but I feel much more confident that the decisions I make are reasonable, and not just guesswork, or based on fear of what the other guy is holding.

[7n7]

Thanks for the insightful posts ... save Mr. Wiggum ... that is. 1st post on this chat board and I already get flamed.

Just fyi, a lot of frequent lurkers here actually study the game as well. We don't just read a chapter and attempt to run over the highest limit game we can find. I am currently on my 3rd reading of SSHE after having read TOP (more than once) and other books of the trade.

My thoughts are a little similar to the last post in that I'm a little tentative in being so aggressive in a LL game. Example: I'm BB w/Q7s and get a free look at the flop. Flop comes J74 with one of my suit giving me middle pair and backdoor flush. I c/r after a late position bet. 4 people call my c/r cold. I plan to give it up if the turn doesn't help (i.e. another card of my suit, Q, or 7).

This style of play is new to me so just wondering how others adjusted.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
After reading SSHE, my hourly rate went into the toilet for about three weeks. Then I re-read it and now my hourly is 3.5 BB/100 at Party 1/2. This up from 2BB/100. Of course, I still don't have enough data yet to say that this isn't a rush, but I feel much more confident that the decisions I make are reasonable, and not just guesswork, or based on fear of what the other guy is holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easier to feel confident when one is winning.

[MoreWineII]

I can't say this enough: POST HANDS!!

It will help you tremendously to get feedback on plays you made or didn't make and have questions about.

[elindauer]

Hi 7n7,

It sounds like you missing some basic elements from your game. In particular, in your suggested hand, the pot is so big that you should certainly see the river for one bet. Planning to give up if you don't improve on the turn is a very basic pot odds mistake.

Good luck.
Eric

[Ralph Wiggum]

nice flop move, bad on turn

insightful

[7n7]

I knew the "give it up" would get me in trouble. Actually I wouldn't have depending on what card fell and what I felt the action might be. With this particular table, I was borderline check or bet. I debated on whether a bet would lose anyone (i.e. weak draws).

[Ralph Wiggum]

[ QUOTE ]
With this particular table, I was borderline check or bet. I debated on whether a bet would lose anyone (i.e. weak draws).

[/ QUOTE ] I think you want to see the turn card before deciding. It might make the decision less borderline.

[ QUOTE ]
1st post on this chat board and I already get flamed.

[/ QUOTE ] Btw, welcome to the forum.

[lazybones]

delurking...

I have read the book, and it has improved my game slightly, but the overall result in my bankroll is that I am consistently doing no better than break even. I understand that a reasonable profit expectation is only a few BB/hour, but sitting at a .50/1 table online with $25 and walking away with between $20-30 a couple of hours later is just plain boring. My stake is chipped away and I win a pot to bring me even, rinse repeat. Is this to be considered "doing ok"? I moved up to 1/2 to find a tighter game, and I've found that I'm doing better with the dramatic reduction in suckouts - maybe that implies that I chase too much in loose games.

I keep thinking that I'm making the easy decisions correctly but playing borderline situations wrong. I'm wondering if anyone can illuminate a few subtle ideas from SSHE that the rookie may not see on first reading. In my opinion, I've learned a lot about how to tighten up and how & when to get out of certain situations. My defensive play has improved considerably, but I feel my offense is lacking. Offence depends quite a bit on how you expect people to react ie. pushing players to fold or trapping them into bad calls. It seems much harder to capture in a book.

cheers, all

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Although I am not yet a Pooh-Bah, I did recieve my Pooh-Bah Welcome kit a few hundred posts early. It came with the following macro... Let's see... you press <ctrl> <alt> and "SS" and you get:

Your sample size is too small to be meaningful.

I promise not to overuse my new power (although it would be difficult to do so). This was, BTW the response to one of my very first posts, when I asked how I was doing. I had played almost 800 hands!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Bluffoon]

I believe that if you try to apply SSHE concepts without strong fundamentals your game will get worse not better.

I have about 150 k hands under my belt (not much admittedly) at 1/2 through 5/10 and I picked up SSHE and immediately found several concepts which I was able to apply to my game. I started out, however, studying the low limit holdem book by Lee Jones and spent a lot of time refining those concepts before picking up holdem poker for advanced players. A thorough understanding of these two books combined with a lot of playing experience and some patience will in my opinion build a good foundation on which SSHE concepts can be selectively applied.

[tolbiny]

Hi Lazybones,
Welcome to the forum. you have made two very dubious statements in your post.
1. I moved up to 1/2 to find a tighter game
2. I've found that I'm doing better with the dramatic reduction in suckouts - maybe that implies that I chase too much in loose games.

If you don't realize why these statements are pretty horrendous as far as maximizing you EV is concerened i would be happy to elaborate, but i think it would improve your game more to figure it out for yourself.

(i guess i should just have written "do you see why?"

[jordanx]

Before reading SSHE I was a winning low limit player who'd read Winning Low Limit Hold Em, Theory Of Poker, Holdem For Advanced Players, Super System and Caro's Book of Tells.

I won about 1 BB/100.

SSHE instantly made me a better player. Well, it was a combination of things. 1) SSHE, which transformed me from weak tight - tight aggressive, to a solid player.

2) I started bonus whoring blackjack and began to truly understand EV, swings and gambling to maximize EV.

I've improved my game by about 2 BB/100 hands. More importantly, it used to bug me when I'd get drawn out on, now it no more bothers me than when I'm 1000 hands deep in a blackjack set and I double down on my 11 w/ the dealer showing a 6 only to pull a 3 and lose to the soft 17.

It's a very important mindset shift.

[MoreWineII]

Sarcasm aside, I do think losing the mind-set of "I sure hope nobody calls me with a crappy hand so I don't get sucked out on." is pretty important.

[stir]

1) Read ssh again...and then again. It will help you with what you recognize as a lack of offense. OTOH, it your handle is accurate perhaps that is why you are not reading, studying and re-reading?

2) Learn why you are absolutely wrong to move up in order to find a tighter game. Until you understand why, you will have a very difficult time improving your results.