Does Phil Hellmuth deserve to be at the PSI over TJ Cloutier?

[TheJackal]

[Neil Stevens]

9-5 in bracelets, right, 1-0 in the championship, right? No contest.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
9-5 in bracelets, right, 1-0 in the championship, right? No contest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil deserves to be there, but certainly not over TJ Cloutier, he is the winningest tournament player of all time.

[Neil Stevens]

Maybe not, but someone has to stick up for Phil or this thread gets boring fast!

I'd rather see TJ and Phil. I loved their moment at the TOC:

TJ: "OK, I could use an ace here."
Phil: "I mucked an Ace."
TJ: "Yeah, I really needed to know that, Phil."

[TheJackal]

I think Phil deserves to be there over TJ Cloutier. Phil would do better against a strong table like the TOC than Cloutier will or would...

[Nottom]

I don't know if he deserves to be there over TJ, but he would make the show much more entertaining. I for one would love to see the fireworks that would errupt when Gus and Phil square off in a pot.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
9-5 in bracelets, right, 1-0 in the championship, right? No contest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention that every single one of phils bracelets was in hold em, where cloutier only has 1 in hold em
Phil H.

1989 $10000 Championship Event - $755,000
1992 $5000 Limit Hold'em - $188,000
1993 $1500 Limit Hold'em - $138,000
1993 $2500 No Limit Hold'em - $161,400
1993 $5000 No Limit Hold'em - $173,000
1997 $3000 Pot Limit Hold'em - $204,000
2001 $2000 No Limit Hold'em - $316,550
2003 $2,500 Limit Hold'em - $171,400
2003 $3,000 No Limit Hold'em - $410,860


TJ Cloutier

1987 $1000 Limit Omaha - $72,000
1994 $2500 Pot Limit Hold'em - $163,000
1994 $1500 Omaha 8 or Better - $135,000
1998 $2500 Pot Limit Omaha - $136,000
2004 $1500 Razz - $90,500

[TheJackal]

The PSI is a hold em event though. I don't doubt that Cloutier is a better all around poker player, but he isn't a better holdem player than Phil H.

[Neil Stevens]

Gus Hansen's garbage hands would drive Phil crazy. It'd make great television.

[curtains]

I heard that Phil was invited but his agent demanded a higher appearance fee than the other players received, and they refused.

[NLfool]

not to knock on TJ as he's one of the classiest players but TJ players just about any tourny of note and on sheer volume alone he should more major wins

[cowpie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather see TJ and Phil. I loved their moment at the TOC:

TJ: "OK, I could use an ace here."
Phil: "I mucked an Ace."
TJ: "Yeah, I really needed to know that, Phil."

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, it was a six (or some other low card) not an ace.

[AceFace]

This sounds like a false choice to me, but whatever...

The PSI table is 8-handed, so there was easily room for one more...

[Olde drunk]

NO! Only because I an tired of the sore loser. Enuff!

His act grew olde in a hurry!

peace,

[jonjonmacky]

After reading Cloutier's book and then hellmuths i would rather see cloutier, i would rather see a tough player than a good but full of himself phil.

[2unlucky2win]

"After reading Cloutier's book and then hellmuths i would rather see cloutier..."

Cloutier might know everything there is about poker, but he made an absolutely novice mistake at a crucial point in the Fox tourney finals against Gus Hansen. No doubt Cloutier is a legedary player, but the subtlety of most of his plays doesnt translate to the boob tube. Phil is a cartoon character and seems to attract bad beats, but theres no other player who is more watchable.

[njc2o]

phil deserves to be there

TJ deserves to be there

i could have done without gus hansen... he's had a good run, but i think he needs to play longer to earn a seat at that table... not saying he's a bad player, or not on those guys' level, but hellmuth's been doing it for 15 years, hansen what, 3?

[MrBlini]

[ QUOTE ]
This sounds like a false choice to me, but whatever...

The PSI table is 8-handed, so there was easily room for one more...

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, but was there anyone else willing to pony up $400k? That's quite a big buy-in, overlay or not.

[TStoneMBD]

nm

[Desdia72]

Gus Hansen. in fact, i don't think Gus deserves to be there at all, especially when you compare his accomplishments to the others. Gus's invite, IMO, is mostly due to his recent popularity.

[Neil Stevens]

I only had the show on while I was playing in a game or two of my own, so sure I could be wrong on the details!

[twankerr]

Gus won more major titles, 3, in the past year than all the other players at the table. Also, with all the beliefs that Gus was somehow getting lucky - I think they owed him this oppurtunity to show he can play with the world class players.

[Daliman]

not to mention the fact that i don't know that Phil could easily come up with 400K.

That said, I'd also venture that TJ is fully backed in this.

[Typical_Cat]

Phil should definitely be there. His blowup at the end of the ESPN Tournament of Champions was the best part of that whole show, especially when he kicked that cart in the hallway, muttering about how Duke was a 30-1 underdog to win it all.

Having said that, TJ should also be there. They should've gone 10-handed (and yes, I know that the 400K buy-in is an issue). So Phil and TJ should definitely be there. So should Gus, he's been killing the entire table so far. And just for kicks, throw in Moneymaker. After all, until Raymer won this year, Moneymaker was temporarily the greatest NLHE player of all time.

[samjjones]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Love him or hate him, Hellmuth is fascinating television. I happen to find him hysterical and harmless.

[phixxx]

^^ Agreed.

Anyone know what Canadian stations broadcast these shows?

[BAD BEAT POLICE]

PHIL H. HAS NEARLY SINGLE HANDEDLY KEPT ME IN BUSINESS.

KEEP IT UP, PUSSY.

[BadVoodooX]

If that's the criteria, make it a 10 person table and add Phil H & Mike Matusow. I can't wait to see Mike Matusow lose it and berrate Chip Reese or Johnny Chan for not having balls.

[Justin A]

Both books were not good. When it came to the NLHE section Phil's was much better IMO. Too bad Phil had the worst limit hold'em section EVER.

Justin A