Collecting data on PT

[sfer]

This is the forum I trust most so I'll ask it here. I'm sure everyone is aware that Party and skins collect hand histories when tables are open, regardless of one's participation in them, and that PT will automatically take down those HHs. Handy for profiling opponents. For the last 24 hours I've been doing it, out of some irrational fear of being falling behind Bison's location: the elusive mineshaft race. This makes me feel pretty damn yucky, and while I do it, I really hope Party catches on and puts a stop to this. What are everyone's thoughts?

[cold_cash]

I've been doing it also, though I don't think I feel badly about it. It's not like we're "in on the secret" or anything. Anyone with the software can do it; the information is out there and available to everyone, so why not use it?

P.S. You're going to hell.

[Lost Wages]

I have absolutely no problem with it. Everyone has access to the technology if they want to use it. I suspect that Party will put a stop to it, not because they care about protecting players, but because of the increased load on their servers which is why they are trying to get away from emailed histories in the first place.

Lost Wages

[PokeHer]

Wait, when I try to import the hand histories that party takes down and puts in the hand history folder in the party poker folder, PT will not import them. How do you guys get that to work?

Also, if you just have a table open and tell PT to auto request the hand history, will it work, or will it only work if you are seated at that table??

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that Party will put a stop to it, not because they care about protecting players, but because of the increased load on their servers which is why they are trying to get away from emailed histories in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

But no.... this relieves the load on their servers, because the HHs are on your computer, and the # of HH requests go down. Read the PT forums.

[J.R.]

but because of the increased load on their servers which is why they are trying to get away from emailed histories in the first place.

Are you sure the auto recording of HHs into the temporary files on your computed pose an increased load on party's servers? I am pretty sure this isn't the case, but am willing to hear otherwise.

[Lost Wages]

If players are leaving themselves logged in and leaving multiple tables open to record hand histories while they are not playing then that increases the load over what it would otherwise be. That is what I meant.

Lost Wages

[MAxx]

i dont do it out of shear laziness.

i dont see anything wrong with it at all. is it helping you? have you gotten a read on anyone yet that you wouldnt have other wise?

[Ponks]

It's definitely helping me. I'm looking to play some 15/30 now and I've never played there before. The past few nights I've been farming the HH's and have notes on over 3,000 players (over 100 hands each) and I've only played about 650 hands there myself. I have notes on about 4-5 people per table usually now. Definitely helps with game selection because I dont know any of the players there and I get some pretty decent reads from it as well.

Ponks

[Warik]

I don't see a problem with it, and I'll tell you why:

1) Players who are not good enough to beat you otherwise will not suddenly obtain the secret to doing so.

2) Players who are good enough to beat you otherwise, well, are good enough to beat you anyway.

3) Players who are roughly on the same level as you will obtain this information about you normally through regular play (I have plenty of people I have over 300 hands with, for example). If anything, when they see how well you play, you might find them avoiding you if they can help it.

4) If anything, it might work to your advantage. "Oh no! Player fjklsgd (you) has been autorated as super duper tigt-aggressive butt kicker player and he just check-raised me! I'd better fold!"

I do, however, think that the game would be better off without players being able to do this... or if only I was able to do this.

Note: MAxx and I are competing for laziness (I don't do it either).

[MAxx]

i still cant get myself to take player notes... i hope you arent that bad

[Gatts]

I do this gleefully. Even after only 2 days and at .5/1 I usually have notes on 2-3 players with 50+ hands at the table. I figure after a week or two of doing this I'll have notes on plenty more.

Very useful, and I see nothing wrong with it. Akin to database/hand history trading, IMO, and I have no qualms about that (although I know some people do).

[J.R.]

Caveat Emptor.

This is poker, a game all about asymmetries of information.

Is it fair poker is a negative sum game, that money comes off the table, and someone has to enoough to pay the house take and the winning players? Is it fair most poeple lose?

Was it fair the first time I sat down at a poker table, unaware of my opponent's knowledge of implied odds, drawing odds, pot odds, hand values, what to do with AA preflop, or that a flush beat a straight?

Is it fair people know of this site and spend time here discussing, debating, learning and stocking up on sklansky dollars, showing up at multiple online tables with thoughts of inflated bb/100 win rates?

Was it fair when turbo texas holdem came out and poeple like abdul spent countless hours running computer simulations?

Was it fair when pokerstat, and then poker tracker, gained prominence and people began to record their own play, and the play of their opponents?

Was it fair when online cardrooms took stock of the "I Wanna See That Hand Rule" and began including the hole cards of players whose hands went to showdowns but did not prevail for the veiwing of anyone so inclined to take the time to look the info up?

How about when party encorporated the "IWSTHR" into their HHs available at the table?

Is it fair Ed Miller wrote a book giving away the "secrets" to beating low limit hold'em, and people have taken the time to read and assimilate his advice, when I had already spent countless hours wadding through posts to catch glimpses and pieces of his and others advice that formed the general basis and body of knowledge from which the book was written?

Was it fair the first time I sat down at a 5-10 table at paradise, not having a clue what iw as doing, and dumped 25O bucks?

Is it fair I can sit at an 80-160 table and get crushed, even though I like to win just as much, if not more than the other guy?

The ability to import hands is quite analagous to the ability to study, to use computer simulations, to read books, to post at this site, to practice etc.

It is open to anyone, unlike the sharing of HHs in one's database with a select few (prior to the new HHs and PT patch when the only way to get hands was to put in the hours), all it takes is a few bucks for PT and time.

And for those that don't know about PT and the ability to import hands from tabels you are not seated at, isn't that just the same as me not knowing about turbo texas hold'em, or HPFAP, or this forum?

You're talking about a tool for improving one's play that is available to everyone, all it takes is effort. It's like the ultimate meritocracy. Its not about money, its about putting forth a little effort (with a little intellect required along the way)




Was it fair when 2+2er illuminous came out with a note exportor (before PT developed one), and shared it with 2+2ers? That's a tool that wasn't available to everyone.

Is it fair I was born with an inferior intellect and will never be as bright as somebody like Chris Ferguson.

But unlike illuminus's exporter, if everyone has access to "it", be it studying essays, reading books, practicing with software, using PT, or harvesting hands, why is it unfair?




Why not require eveyone who has taken the time to study to smoke a blunt before playing to counteract (well, at least require those who would be negatively impacted) the edge they have from hours of study. Its like saying Jerry Rice should have had to wear ankle weights because he worked (and still works) harder than everyone else and was (and is) one of the most conditioned athletes ever.

Its not like steroids, which are illegal. Everyone can do this, it is no crutch, its something that you and I and any other party pokerer can get a reward from if they put in the effort to harvest hand histories and try to learn the impact and effect of the numbers.

[ftball0000]

Hey guys,

I'm feelin kinda left out here.... I have the tables open, but I'm not getting any hand histories written to my computer. I only get them if I am actually sitting down at the table (I can be away).

So my question is, are you guys actually taking up a seat at the table? or just watching?

I get the impression that you guys are just watching, if so, what could I be doing wrong?

Thanks,
-Ftball

[Gatts]

http://www.pokertracker.com/partyhd.html

[sthief09]

if 5,000 people are online farming hands, it looks like 5,000 more people are online. from Party's standpoint, that's absolutely great. Party may not have the perks or the great bonuses, but they have soft games and amazing amounts of traffic. as much as people bitch about them, they are clearly the best site.

[ftball0000]

Thanks for the link, but the HHF files just get totally ignored by my pokertracker when I am importing hand histories. I posted in the pokertracker forums also, is anyone else having the same problem

Thanks,
-Ftball

[J.R.]

In which folder do you have the auto-importor looking for the hhs. It should be the in Party (or other skins) "Hand History" folder, and make sure you have created a subfolder in the hand history folder that is named the same as your screen name at that skin. You may also want to check the "my pc doesn't update the time stamp" button in the PT auto-exporter.

[crockett]

Of course your forgetting one small point. Money.

Party will quickly figure out, if they haven't already, that hours online isn't mathcing their rake and why.

This will not last long so take advantage of it while you can.

I am on the side that thinks this is perfectly fine. Just another tool to add your toolbox to make you a better poker player.

Party on the other hand will see as increased bandwidth (more cost to them) without a return (their not raking any money from you).