Weak/Tight?

[Percula]

A little background... 25 FPP tourament on PS for the EPT. It is fairly late in the tourament, we are down to <40 players, the 1st thru 3rd chip leaders moved to the table about 8-10 orbits ago. I have been card dead for the last hour plus and have not been able to steal many blinds, getting played back at big time...

Reads:
MP2 = Somewhat LAG, but has shown down some good hands.
MP1 = Appears to be TAG, did not see one hand shown down, won all of them with big bets on big flops, showed a couple of times for monsters.
BB = Tight but desperate.

I put the MP1 on a big pair with this raise, TT-KK. This is the one that got me to fold.
I put MP2 on just about anything, likely Ax, he liked to play the flop for two pair or better in this type of situation.
I put BB on Ax and desperate.

This is the critical hand for the whole thing for me, if I had played I would of had enough chips to start stealing again, and enough that a couple of good hands I win and I can win this thing.

I have faced several of these types of situations of late where I am pretty deep in the tourament, get a good starting hand (AK, AQ, QQ, JJ) only to raise early and face multiple all-ins and puss out just about everytime, or get whooped if I call, which has made me coin-flip shy and frankly I think it is a leak right now.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t11990)
BB (t830)
Hero (t2850)
UTG+1 (t7320)
MP1 (t15945)
MP2 (t16030)
CO (t1655)
Button (t2780)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t600</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises to t4000</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to t16030</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t630 (All-In), Hero folds, MP1 calls t11945 (All-In).

Flop: (t33505) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t33505) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t33505) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t33505
<font color="green">Main Pot: t3190 (t3190), between BB, MP1 and MP2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by BB (t3190).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t30230 (t30230), between MP1 and MP2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP1 (t30230).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 3: t85 (t85), returned to MP2.</font>

Results below: <font color="green">
BB has Jh Ah (two pair, aces and kings).
MP1 has 9h 9d (two pair, kings and nines).
MP2 has 4h Th (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP1 wins t30230. BB wins t3190. MP2 wins t85. </font>

[The4thFilm]

easiest fold ever

[Roman]

dont be so results orientated, easy fold.

[nuclear500]

Agreed. Hindsight is always $$$ though and you'd definately taken that massive pot.

But to call against that betting is suicide. AK, KK or AA would be the only hands to call with in that case and I'm truly surprised no one showed that.


Then again this was a freeroll, so I may have called it.

[Percula]

Thanks for the replies! I was getting worried.

Here is another that cost me big time... Sorry no had history, but I will play with the hand converter to make it close.

This was the AP $100 WSOP sat.

This is pretty early in the tourament, but here is what I had on limited reads...

MP2 LAG! Would go all-in on TPTK without a second thought, or even with middle pair bad kicker. Wasn't too worried about this guy.

CO TAG, would only be in the hand with good cards, but was willing to battle it out with MP2 as he has shown too much BS to date.

I thought long and hard about this one. I know I had about a 34% chance of hitting the flush, which I did not think was in play. I put MP2 on Ax and CO on AK. I finally folded and decided it was better to not draw/chase the flush so early and without having a deeper stack to do it with.

Thinking back on this hand, it was a turning point for my tourament. I think I really had the odds to call the t100 to see the next cards, but I pussed out. The winner of this was a total bully once he got this stack, it was nearly impossible to play a hand without the likelihood of being put all in by this guy. He ended up at the final table finishing 4th or 5th. I was able to get some killer hands in the second hour and likely would have made the final table against people who I have cleaned their clock more than once, and likely would have a seat now. But not having enough chips to really make those big hands pay their maximum, I ended up getting short stacked with the blinds getting big and pushed at the wrong time, AT against KK and AA. I finshed just short of the final table, just out of the money.

AP No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t~1000)
Hero BB (t~1900)
UTG(t~900)
UTG+1 (t~2100)
MP1 (t~1600)
MP2 (t~3500)
CO (t~1000)
Button (t~2100)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero checks</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 call t30</font>, CO call t30, Button folds, SB folds.

Flop: (t33505) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">Hero checks, MP2 bets t100, CO calls t100, Hero folds</font>

Turn: (t33505) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">MP2 bets t200, CO calls t200</font>

River: (t33505) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue"> MP2 bets all-in, CO calls</font>

Final Pot: t???? (big)

Results below: <font color="green">
MP2 has AK(two pair, kings and aces).
CO has KQ(two pair, kings and queens).
Outcome: MP2 wins t??? (big)</font>

[Malcom Reynolds]

I think you should call t100 on the flop. Your call closes the action and so you can see if you hit the flush cheaply on the next card. The key is that you close the action; calling when there is a player behind you that could blow you out of the water with a raise could make this call expensive.

[The4thFilm]

Easy call. 1/19th of your stack and two idiots who will pay you off.

[Bigdaddydvo]

For your second hand...

This is probably terrible strategy, but I usually gamble and pay for the turn card when the pot odds aren't quite correct since there are tremendous implied odds when you hit. It is a bit risky, but is risking about 5% of your stack that bad for 3-1 pot odds and lots lots more of implied odds if you hit?

Keep in mind this is a gamble, and the last tourney I was in I bet a K high flush draw the whole way through at the cost of half of my chips...just keep the costs and benefits in mind.

[Malcom Reynolds]

Playing draws is difficult and I think that I'd much rather play them on the button or to the right of the bettor/aggressive player. Draws work when you can call and close out the action and don't work when you call and then are re-raised and have to fold.

Also you can't really chase too many draws or you are just spewing chips. OESD for example are overrated because if you miss you don't even have a pair for showdown. If you have any pair and a flush draw, this is much preferable already IMHO.

[Percula]

Yep, this second hand really bothered me! Still does, LOL.

I was a little thrown on strat for this one. It did not look like the prise pool was going to get a second seat up until about 15 mins before start time. I had been thinking the whole time up to this day that I would play it based 90% on pot odds, since it basically would be a winner take all game, sure some cash but not much compared to the WSOP seat. Play smart, but base most of my play on pot odds. Then wham bam, we now have two seats! Big change in my mind, maybe it shouldn't have been.

Most of the players in this won a sub-sat for between $5 and $12, granted they where similar with only the top 2-4 places paying a seat to this sat. Many of them were not very good players, and my normal strat for this situation is to play tight and avoid calling off my chips on draws and TPTK and avoid coin flips early on, make my big hands pay off as much as possible and come to the final two tables with an average+ stack, then get nasty aggressive and take out the short stacks and bully the tight big stacks. Instead I ended up at the final two tables with a SHORT stack and had to push several times to make it as far as I did and of course sooner or later you are going to get killed most of the time.

[willie24]

this is a clear fold. dont even think about it. the chances of one or both players having one of these: AK, KK, or even AA, are tremendous. you can't possibly call this.

the fact that mp2 was making an outrageous bluff can't make you second guess yourself. you have too little to gain and way too much to lose by calling him on it.

[willie24]

2nd hand-
i think you should call, and its not even close to being risky. its $100.

i would've then check raised turn. however, i would have then considered folding to a reraise on turn or river. the board is dangerous, even for a medium flush. if you aren't confident that you could fold when beaten after you hit your flush, then i don't think the fold was that bad.