Bad river play? Anyone see this coming?

[AZK]

Trying to make the transition to 100BB stacks at stars having come from Party. Have not had much success, it just seems like the players at party are so much worse and the potential earn is so much better...still feeling my way out. Anyone do anything differently here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($51.60)
UTG+1 ($127.20)
MP1 ($22.80)
<font color="C00000">Hero ($127.70)</font>
CO ($99.75)
Button ($40.05)
<font color="C00000">SB ($104.95)</font>
BB ($30.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $1, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $1, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($5) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets $3</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, Button folds, SB calls $5.

Turn: ($21) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, SB calls $10.

River: ($41) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to $85.95</font>, Hero calls $55.95.

Final Pot: $212.90
<font color="green">Main Pot: $212.90, between Hero and SB.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by SB ($212.90).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has 6d 5d (straight, eight high).
SB has Kh 7s (full house, kings full of sevens).
Outcome: SB wins $212.90. </font>

[jkbartl]

A couple personal preferences:

1st - I don't usually limp into a pot with 6/5s unless I'm on the button. If you knew that you could get in cheaply with enough players to make it worth the draw, then your play was ok.

2nd - I'm not sure I like your re-raise with just the bottom end of your draw on the flop. Not knowing how the small blind plays, it makes it tougher, but if he had top pair (or was bluffing) he probably would have bet the pot ($5). $3 feels like a value bet. I'm pretty tight in No Limit cash games, so I would have folded here.

With that said, once you hit your "perfect" card on the turn (making a pretty well-disguised straight), you were trapped and you just got unlucky on the river when he filled up. I would have been pretty nervous calling his all-in re-raise though, but I probably would have made the call as well.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
$3 feels like a value bet. I'm pretty tight in No Limit cash games, so I would have folded here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Folding here is very bad IMO. Too much implied odds for making a very disguised straight. Not to mention you're getting an immediate 8:3 on your money.

Justin A

[jkbartl]

I can see why you feel that folding is a weak play, but do you agree that raising was too aggressive? I don't like raising on a draw unless it's a draw to a straight and a flush, or at least the top end of the open-ended straight (holding 9/10 instead of 5/6). Again, I play pretty tight, but looking to learn.

[Pokerho]

Any time I see a blind lead out, a two pair warning light goes off in my head, particularly the big blind. However, some people will call with anything in the small blind. It was really too late by the time you caught your straight, but it might could have saved you some money at the end.

[AZK]

The table was very loose passive, so I'm not really worried about the limp, generally though, I don't play that loose. As for the flop raise, I suppose it's debatable having the bottom end of a straight on a 2 flush board, I think I was doing it more to get a free card as this table frequently, checked to the raiser...I'm really curious about calling the river, I feel like more often than not this will be a hand that is Kx, at least on party, on stars maybe it's a better one...

[jkbartl]

In taking another look at the betting pattern, the SB was letting you do the betting for him after your raise on the flop - very suspicious. His check on the river after catching what I would have assumed to be his 3rd K would have made me very nervous, especially since the board didn't show anything very dangerous to him. Your $30 bet was very dangerous, as only a hand that could beat you would call (or re-raise, as he did). I may have just checked here and taken the $41 pot if I wasn't beaten (but as I stated, I'm a tight player).

Much easier to think this way after reviewing the hand history. Like I said in my first reply, in the heat of the moment with 30 secs to act, I would have called the re-raise.

[icecreamwillie]

It's hard to turn off hindsight, but I think the problem was actually on the turn. A $10 bet into a $21 pot doesn't do much to either maximize your profit or define your opponents hand. A pot size bet, or more if you think there is a chance he will call with a top pair type of hand, seems more in order. Once you know he called a big bet on the turn, you should check behind when the board pairs on the river. A bigger pot may have made him bet out on the river but presumably you don't call an all-in lead out bet on the river.

I don't know what I would have done faced with the all in check raise. You have to consider he may be seriously overplaying trip K's, but the worst hand a non-maniac could have would be AK. After all he has to consider it likely that you also have a K.

I mostly play NL limit in a small live game, so my read on a "typical" player may be way off.