How do you proceed?

[onegymrat]

You're in a 9/18 hold'em full game where the current action is loose and a bit aggressive. You are in middle position with QQ. There are two limpers before you but the player immediate to your right mucks and accidentally flips open a Q. How do you play on?

What if there was a raise before the action gets to you? Do you proceed differently?

[cnfuzzd]

I would still raise. However, if there was a 3 bet, i would probably just call, unless there were several players caught between. I would 3-bet myself if there was a raise from my right. The big pairs arent played for set value, and will often win pots unimproved.

peace

john nickle

[DarkHorse1978]

In an aggressive game, I'd expect a raise from the button or another late position, and for it to cost two bets to see the flop. In this case I would fold.
Limpers in early position will likely have at least an Ace or a King with good kicker (maybe your other Queen!), and as one Queen has already been burned you are almost certainly not going to flop a set. Any overcard on the flop is going to force you to fold your ladies, and when you add the possibility of flushes, straights, and bigger pocket-pairs to the mix, it could be an expensive hand. Why not get out for free, and wait for the next one? In this situation, I would also decide on a delectable choice of words to scream when the flop comes Q-2-2, as it inevitably would! lol

Strangely, if there was a raise in front of me, I might go for a re-raise. (Sounds odd, but bear with me.) This will probably fold out all the players behind you, unless they have a premium hand. You may 'buy-the-button' (when everyone behind you folds, you will then be last to act on the flop), and if an A or a K does flop, you could maybe take the pot with a bet/raise as you are clearly representing Aces, Kings, or both. Of course, this would be a gamble - if someone raised pre-flop in early position, THEY may have AA, KK, or AK.

Reading through this post, it looks like I'm trying to sound like an expert - I'm not!I'm just a low-limit player who'd be scared in a 9/18 game anyway. So treat my advice with the appropriate level of respect!

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
big pairs arent played for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, QQ, JJ and TT are if you cant get people out preflop.

I would raise QQ even if I knew there was only 1 Q in deck.

[cnfuzzd]

I disagree, AA-QQ, and to a lesser extend JJ and TT, are played because they can win unimproved. Of course, the more players, the more likely you will lose, but i have rarely played QQ knowing i must flop a set to win, or got particularly worried when i didnt.

peace

john nickle

[Michael Davis]

This actually happened to me once in that specific game, but I had JJ and was on the BB. I checked my option, probably the only time ever.

In your situation, I think you have a clear raise, but your reason for raising has swung in favor of limiting the field, rather than for value. I suspect you do not want a bunch of callers here.

-Michael

[dogmeat]

I put in a raise here, and adhere more closely to my idea that I may have to muck if there is an A or K on the flop and a raise comes my way. I don't really see any other way of playing this. Most of my wins with QQ are when there are three rags on the flop and I get a pocket pair of lower value or the top onboard pair to pay me off.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[onegymrat]

Hi Michael,

Yes, this was an actual hand a while back also. The game was fairly loose-aggressive in a couple of spots and I was unlikely to thin the crowd behind me. I called and although it was not raised preflop, I had to abandon my hand on the flop anyway.

[kiddo]

Many of the times you win with QQQ you would have lost with QQ, its a simple as that.

A pair can make a set, thats the good thing with any pair. A high pair can win unimproved, thats the good think with high pairs. High pairs got 2 ways to win, not one.

[Dov]

I raise whether or not it was already raised.

If the flop comes with a str8 draw that will need a Q, that will be one less thing you need to worry about.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
In an aggressive game, I'd expect a raise from the button or another late position, and for it to cost two bets to see the flop. In this case I would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

When it gets raised from late position, you will usually have the best hand here. This is a perfect time to reraise. Get your money in with the best hand. You don't want to see a cheap flop just because an overcard might fall. You don't need to catch a 3rd Q that often to win here.

As a side note, if an A or K flops and there is significant action, would you fold the flop even if you knew BOTH Q's were still in the deck? Or would you draw to the set?

You will have to fold either way. The absence of the other Q doesn't make any difference here.

[ QUOTE ]
Strangely, if there was a raise in front of me, I might go for a re-raise. (Sounds odd, but bear with me.) This will probably fold out all the players behind you, unless they have a premium hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. In a loose, aggressive game, many hands will be 3 bets to the flop. That's exactly why you want such a good starting hand. Most people will be raising with crap like any suited connector, any pair, and offsuit broadways. You want them in the hand with you, and you want them to pay for it.

[ACW]

[ QUOTE ]
As a side note, if an A or K flops and there is significant action, would you fold the flop even if you knew BOTH Q's were still in the deck? Or would you draw to the set?

You will have to fold either way. The absence of the other Q doesn't make any difference here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but the missing queen does halve the probability of the golden AQx flop, which is usually very lucrative for pocket queens.