did i totally wimp out here?

[Noodles]

2-4$ ultimate bet,table loose and slighty aggressive,few bluffers around,dont know about this guy though he had only just come in a few hands ago

i am in MP3 with 99

folded to MP1 who 2 bets,MP2 folds,I 3 bets,folded around,he calls

Flop: 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif
he checks,i bet he calls

Turn: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Damn! he checks,i check
i fear a cr here,should i have bet to see what he does

river: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif
he bets,i fold

What can he have that i beat,only 88,
was the turn check on my part ok?

i was worried about my turn check being wimpy,also the fact that i had been getting hammered all day,did the hammering turn me wimpy or was this ok?

[J.R.]

With KK the turn check is a better play as it invites and bluff and if you are ahead on the turn the river is unlikely to change things, with 99 the check is worse* because you have many cards (such as this Q) that can beat you and have invited a bluff so you are already predisposed to be more likely to call a river bet (when in fact you are better off putting a bet in on the turn than getting bet into on the river with 99 on this board).

* This assumes you are uncertain about your status on the turn. If MP1 needs a big pair or big ace to raise preflop, your turn play is fine (unless you thought MP1 would check-call the flop with a better hand like TT but would fold to the turned A)

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
With KK the turn check is a better play as it invites and bluff and if you are ahead on the turn the river is unlikely to change things, with 99 the check is worse* because you have many cards (such as this Q) that can beat you and have invited a bluff so you are already predisposed to be more likely to call a river bet (when in fact you are better off putting a bet go in on the turn than getting bet into on the river with 99 on this board).

* This assumes you are uncertain about your status on the turn. If MP1 needs a big pair or big ace to raise preflop, your turn play is fine (unless you thounght MP1 would check-call the flop with a better hand like TT but would fold to the turned A)


[/ QUOTE ]

well i had no specific reads on this player but there was a lot of pf raising at this table but it was with legitimate hands, with the J and A out on the turn i figured if i bet the turn the only thing he would fold would be QK, then when theq fell on the riv i figured i was beat unless he had 88,
if a Q did not fall on the riv,i would have seen him then alright

[Chris Daddy Cool]

you should bet this turn and fold to a checkraise and if not checkraised check the river behind unless a 9 comes off.

J.R. makes some very good points.

[Ralph Wiggum]

How about just giving up on this hand? Isn't that an option?

[nepenthe]

Giving up is an option. However, I would put a sliver of hope in the possibility that he holds KQ or something and bet the turn.

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]


you should bet this turn and fold to a checkraise and if not checkraised check the river behind unless a 9 comes off.



[/ QUOTE ]

yea but is betting the turn going to make him fold,what will he fold?
is betting the turn going to put more money in the pot for me to win? no idoubt it,what can he have at this stage that i beat? KQ i suppose,but i am going to bet hoping he has this?
KQ is the only hand i see folding here that a prf would have and even not that many pfr's raise with that!

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I would put a sliver of hope in the possibility that he holds KQ or something and bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
that is rather a small sliver though isnt it? /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
with 99 the check is worse* because you have many cards (such as this Q) that can beat you and have invited a bluff so you are already predisposed to be more likely to call a river bet (when in fact you are better off

[/ QUOTE ]
but with a J,Q A out isnt more likely that if he bets it is because he has one of those?
if a blank fell on the riv and he bet,i wouldve called then alright even though i still wouldnt like it,

I suppose all this comes from reraising with hands like 88-TT ,what is the way to play when the scare cards fall?

[J.R.]

I suppose all this comes from reraising with hands like 88-TT ,what is the way to play when the scare cards fall?

Part of the reason for re-raising is that you make the "scare cards" scary cards for your opponents. If you are going to 3-bet with pseudo marginal 3-betting hands such as TT, 99, etc, you have to follow up on your preflop strength and play fairly fearlessly postflop, especially when your opponent has yet to take the momentum away from you.