K9 suited

[TrueBritt]

I was in a loose cash 1-2-2 no-limit game when I got K9s in the small blind. Someone made a standard raise to 15 (the minimum bet was 4), and 4 people called. I was already in for 2, and called the remaining 13. Was that a mistake?

I flopped 2 more of my suit, and had the pot odds to draw to a flush on the flop and the turn, but my question is whether my initial call before the flop was too loose.

Thanks.

[Jonny]

way too loose, especially out of position. I would probably only call a raise to 4 or so, if that.

Easy muck here.

[TrueBritt]

[ QUOTE ]
way too loose, especially out of position. I would probably only call a raise to 4 or so, if that.

Easy muck here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even with 5 other people in?

What if everyone had stayed in? Then should I have seen the flop? How should I change my starting requirements when a lot of people are seeing the flop?

[Jonny]

doesnt matter how many see it. Bottom line is that with Axs, sure call, but with Kxs, you are not even drawing to the nut flush. You have to play for 2 Pair, so it basically turns into 72o. Especially since you are out of position, this is an easy fold for sure.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line is that with Axs, sure call, but with Kxs, you are not even drawing to the nut flush. You have to play for 2 Pair, so it basically turns into 72o.

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This is ridiculous. There's plenty of value in a king high flush. The notion that K9s is about as valuable as 72o is just awful. This is still a clear fold, but so would Ax suited.

Justin A

[Justin A]

What were the stack sizes? I'm almost sure this should have been a fold, but stack sizes make a differences as to how big of a mistake it is.

Justin A

[TrueBritt]

[ QUOTE ]
What were the stack sizes? I'm almost sure this should have been a fold, but stack sizes make a differences as to how big of a mistake it is.

Justin A

[/ QUOTE ]

I had 140. The guy who took me down had 300. The guy who made the initial raise had 100. Most of the callers had about 100.

[DOMIT]

[ QUOTE ]
way too loose, especially out of position. I would probably only call a raise to 4 or so, if that.
Easy muck here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, easy muck; especially considering the stack sizes that you mentioned later.

That said...

His relative position might change due to the position to the raiser. If the raiser was in early position and openned with a raise, then, 3-4 people cold called, then he calls. He's effectively in last position (relative to the raiser). Everyone will expect the raiser to act first; the cold callers will act; then our hero. This effectively puts him in last position. If the raise was more like 4-6, and the number of callers the same, a call would not be quite so bad.