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View Full Version : First 10,000 hands - a introspective look at low limti poker progress


pokerstudAA
09-26-2004, 05:54 PM
I started playing online a few months ago. I deposited $50 into party poker and studied up on limit poker. I was playing one table at a time at this point. After the first $50 nearly ran out playing .50/$1 I had a nice run played 447 hands saw 47% of the flops and played my ass off. I won $100 in that session and got the account up to about $125. After some studying and focus I got the bankroll up to about $300. I went ahead and took my initial deposit of $50 and had a check mailed for $75 – juicy poker profit. I kept fairly decent notes at this point and had played about 90 sessions and played about 6,000 hands. The bankroll was fluctuating between about $150 and $250. I went ahead and bought poker tracker to see if I could get a better handle on some of this.

Then I started playing the $10 SNG's for a few months. . That got my roll up around the $300-$400 range. After a dip down below $200 I had a nice run and was up to about $400.

I finally made the switch back to limit when these boards convinced me to buy SSH. After reading that and a few other hold em' books I have logged more than 10,000 hands at both the .50/1 and 1/2 tables.

When the account hit about $600 I removed $125 – juicy poker profit! As I write the BR is up to $1250.

So far....

334 SNG's ($10 limit, NL, and one accidental pot-limit, and a few $20's)
Net $394

ROI 16.05%
Fin in $: 38.73%

1st - 51
2nd - 36
3rd - 38

I like SNG's but realized that the time and focus these games took were not really worth the time I invested. My concentration level needed to be much higher to do well and I could only play one game at a time. I started playing two at once with staggered starts but this wasn’t that great either. .

I had played some limit previously and had an interesting ride.

Pre PT:
90 sessions
6,000 hands
Starting BR: $50 + $10 bonus
Ending BR: $190
I recorded my flop % during this time and it was usually between 30-45%

After PT: pre SSH
2,164 hands - .50/$1
Net: - $65.00 loss
PT rated this as LA-A – the taz.
PRF: 6.9%
VPIP: 32.7%
Clearly playing much to loose when I was learning – at least it was not passively. How I managed not to lose the entire roll during this time now amazes me. I changed my login name to prepare for a new run of limit. Pokerstud AA – I thought this would get people to call me down with my AA. Who knows? Now I think this was a bit too macho – not really my style. Probably should have picked a name like Granny Smith or Ms. Baird or 72offsuit or luckyeddie.

After SSH:
11,509 hands – .50/$1 and $1/2
Net: $857.32
PT rated: TA-A
PFR: 7.51%
VPIP: 18.4%
BB/100: 6.91
73 hours played
Win rate: $11.75/hr
Ending BR: $1250
Total Rake: $355
Best hands: all the big pairs

I feel like I am playing fairly well at this point. I am playing 3-4 tables at a time and at both the .5/1 and $1/2 level comfortably. I would like to make a slight shift up to the $2/4 level once the BR reaches about 2K. The $11.75 an hour figure makes me think that poker is barely worth the hassle. I know I have read some threads taking about the BB/100 around 7 being unsustainable. Moving up to the higher levels is going to be the only was to make poker worth the time investment. Party Poker also charges an enormous rake – yikes – almost 30% of the winnings.

During this time I have played in several regular live poker home games/ tournaments. While live games are quite different I think that the online play has definitely improved my live play.



Things I have yet to learn:
1. how to post a link to a thread
2. how to use the game time PT window effectively
3. how to add a nifty little icon of Ralph Wiggum or George Jetson next to my 2+2 name
4. whether to 3-bet a LAG who raises from EP with AJs if there are still 2 players to act.
5. the best way to use information about an opponent’s current action based on his past play.



Thanks 2+2.....Dr. Al, Ed, the other authors, Bison, Tosh, all the 2+2 posters, Pat over at Poker Tracker, all the low limit fishies, and all those who make poker so much fun!

Tosh
09-26-2004, 07:24 PM
Keep up the progress. FWIW low limit SNGs are a nice bankroll builder, with work you could get your ROI up into the 30s and maybe beyond.

Good luck.

PokeHer
09-27-2004, 01:34 AM
nice work. I have a question for you since it seems i am at about the same point as you were a while ago. I can cleanup the .5/1 games with a BB/100 of over 8 on about 6,000 hands. I have trouble with 1/2 though. my BB/100 is a loss of 2.03 in about 1200 hands. Are the 2 games really that different or do you think i am just catching cold cards and bad beats (which I tend to think I am)?

bisonbison
09-27-2004, 01:51 AM
In both cases, your sample size is insignificant. Plain and simple.

aces up
09-27-2004, 02:05 AM
this is the type of story i'd like to have a few months from now. I am currently playing at a level that is below break even, but I intend on buying SSH after all i have heard about it here.

sonataarctica
09-27-2004, 02:20 AM
That book is so good i dont want you to read it /images/graemlins/grin.gif
it is ridiculous how much my game improved after reading that book. yours will improve too

Guy McSucker
09-27-2004, 07:29 AM
Glad to hear you're making good progress in your game.

Some small observations:

[ QUOTE ]

34 SNG's ($10 limit, NL, and one accidental pot-limit, and a few $20's)
Net $394

ROI 16.05%
Fin in $: 38.73%


[/ QUOTE ]

If you were to focus on SNGs, you should be able to do considerably better than this, I think. It doesn't look like you're cashing often enough. The guys on the 1-table tournament forum can really help you out there. SNGs are an excellent low-variance way to build a bankroll. Downswings at limit poker can be brutal; downswings in the SNGs are seldom so bad.

[ QUOTE ]

After SSH:
11,509 hands – .50/$1 and $1/2
Net: $857.32
PT rated: TA-A
PFR: 7.51%
VPIP: 18.4%
BB/100: 6.91


[/ QUOTE ]

You're running very good here. Great to see, and with numbers this high it's very likely you're a solidly winning player in these games, but you should expect to encounter some rougher patches if you keep playing. Be ready for them!

[ QUOTE ]

Party Poker also charges an enormous rake – yikes – almost 30% of the winnings.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, I have paid considerably more than this.

[ QUOTE ]

Moving up to the higher levels is going to be the only was to make poker worth the time investment.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, moving up in limits is the best way to make decent money at poker. The players do improve as you go up to $3/6, but not much.

[ QUOTE ]

how to post a link to a thread


[/ QUOTE ]

Two steps:

- get hold of the URL for the thread
- insert said URL into your post

To get a thread's URL, I go to that thread and get my browser to open the main frame in a new window (right click on it, probably... I use a Mac so who knows?). The URL for the thread appears in that new window's address bar. Then copy that text into your clipboard (something like right click, select call, right click, copy on Windows). Now in the post you're making, click the "URL" link under "Instant UBB code" and paste the address you've just copied into the pop-up window. A couple more clicks and you're done.

Good luck,

Guy.

Fnord
09-27-2004, 07:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You're running very good here. Great to see, and with numbers this high it's very likely you're a solidly winning player in these games, but you should expect to encounter some rougher patches if you keep playing. Be ready for them!


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second that. I was up over 500 BB after my first ~12k or so hands of 2/4. Now I'm running on a -150BB swing. And it's funny that I lost most of that at some really good and loose tables. This game can really kick you in the teeth at times...

dfscott
09-27-2004, 08:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker also charges an enormous rake – yikes – almost 30% of the winnings.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dream about paying only 30% in rake. My rake % for the various levels is:

0.5/1: 50%
1/2: 100%
2/4: 1000%(!!)

BigBaitsim (milo)
09-27-2004, 09:18 AM
Not to simply echo Bison, but your sample size is very small. I think 10K hands can tell you if you are playing too loose or too tight, but is not nearly enough of a sample to tell you if you are a good player.

Case in point: In my first 11K hands at 3/6 I've won about 3BB/100. Sounds great, until you look at the stats. Over the first 6K hands I lost ~3BB/100, and over the next 5K hands I've won ~7BB/100. Yes, I made a few changes in my play, but not enough to account for a monster swing like that. Poker is a game of huge variance and small margins. You WILL have weeks or even months where you will lose. Continue to study the game, and advance SLOWLY while following good BR management.

And post questionable hands here.

bisonbison
09-27-2004, 09:37 AM
to be clear, I think pokerstudAA is talking about a small sample size, but I was responding to pokeher's stats, which are based on a blip.

BigBaitsim (milo)
09-27-2004, 09:46 AM
As much as I know of statistics, it has taken close to a year for me to get into my thick head that 500, 5,000 or even 10,000 hands represents too small a sample size to be meaningful as far as winrate. Having this new knowledge makes me as giddy as a schoolgirl, and I want to share it with the world.