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3rdEye
09-26-2004, 10:11 AM
A friend of mine is in the U.S. Army. He is not in active combat. I saw him last night for the first time in a while. My conversation with him revealed to me some interesting things about the opinion of the rank and file members of our armed forces regarding the war in Iraq.

First. According to my friend, he and his companions in the military generally believe that this war is a lost cause. Those who are not already in Iraq are scared to death of going there--not because they are cowards, but because they fear that they might die for a cause in which they do not believe. While there is a deep hatred of terrorists (which, for some, amounts to a disdain for all things Arab), the consensus is that the war encourages rather than suppresses terrorist activity.

Second. While my friend and his comrades generally oppose the war on intellectual grounds, many of them are prompted to support it out of spite against those civilians who, a la Vietnam, harass the troops and label them mindless agents in the service of "evil" (i.e., Bush).

This, of course, is something that many of us probably already knew, or have surmised. In that respect, I offer nothing new to this debate. The point of this post is to illustrate that, in my opinion, those who oppose the war would do well to avoid knee-jerk opposition to all facets of the effort. Much that has been accomplished by our troops in Iraq has been for the betterment of the global community. While it may be (and I believe) that, as a whole, the war effort is unnecessary and ill-advised, we who oppose the war should freely acknowledge it when an outcome of the conflict is beneficial to Iraqis and/or Americans. It is obvious, for example, that Iraqis are better off without Hussein. If only they (that is, the Iraqis and the anti-war types) would collectively abandon their poliitcal prejudices and acknowledge this fact, we would all be better off.

In sum, those of us who oppose the war would do well to avoid Vietnam-protestor-like extremism. The troops, while generally intellectually sympathetic to our stance, are motivated in their hearts to wage war by the desire to spite those who would label them agents of evil.

While we may deplore this war, we must resist the instinct to vilify those who are assigned to wage it. In the end, political harassment of our soldiers is both obtuse and counterproductive.

MMMMMM
09-26-2004, 10:32 AM
Interesting thoughts.

Well, Cyrus?

cardcounter0
09-26-2004, 11:21 AM
Troops in Iraq usually send a letter home similar to this:

Dear Mom,

Instead of sending me cookies, could you get online and order a decent flack jacket for me? The Army is phasing in the issue of flack jackets over the next 10 years. Also a proper Kevlar Helmet, better than the standard issue one, might be nice. Don't know when I will be able to write again, they are starting to restrict ground troop comunications with back home, so the average American doesn't realize how bad things are getting over here.

Your Son,

Johnny.

andyfox
09-26-2004, 12:56 PM
I don't see very much harrassment of our troops. Those who have been most consistent in their opposition to the war (Senators Byrd and Kennedy, for example) have gone out of their way to express their admiration and support for the troops. They have separated their disgust for the administration's policies from their remarks about the troops. I have heard no influential war critic label the troops as agents of evil.

It is one thing to ask "anti-war types" here in the U.S. to abandon their political prejudices. It is quite another for Iraqis who have suffered under a tyrannical regime and now see their country occupied.

3rdEye
09-27-2004, 08:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see very much harrassment of our troops. Those who have been most consistent in their opposition to the war (Senators Byrd and Kennedy, for example) have gone out of their way to express their admiration and support for the troops. They have separated their disgust for the administration's policies from their remarks about the troops. I have heard no influential war critic label the troops as agents of evil.


[/ QUOTE ]

It would of course be political suicide for a member of the federal government to harass the troops. I'm talking about anti-troop sentiment among civilians. Just recently, for example, some group decided to place a lot of combat boots in a cemetery to protest the war. In addition, protestors are sometimes present when troops get off planes upon returning home (or so I'm told).

Cyrus
09-27-2004, 10:12 AM
"While my friend and his comrades generally oppose the war on intellectual grounds, many of them are prompted to support it out of spite against those civilians who, a la Vietnam, harass the troops and label them mindless agents in the service of "evil" (i.e., Bush)."

There are many ways one can respond to the arguments of the anti-war people. I cannot imagine how spite can be one of them! I mean, I heard a lot of reasons for volunteering to go to war, such as patriotism, etc, but going there just to spite the anti-war crowd is a first.

I don't understand what coming back in a flag-draped coffin would accomplish towards that objective.

...I hate to say it but that term you used about your friends ("intellectual grounds") maybe is half wrong.

jslag
09-27-2004, 10:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
In sum, those of us who oppose the war would do well to avoid Vietnam-protestor-like extremism. The troops, while generally intellectually sympathetic to our stance, are motivated in their hearts to wage war by the desire to spite those who would label them agents of evil.

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly is intelligent about waging war against a foreign, sovereign nation out of spite for the citizens that oppose war in your own country?

Are we supposed to oppose the war out of our own free will, but at the same time silence ourselves for the sake of the troops who are sent to fight for a cause we do not believe in? I think the answer is a resounding No.

I agree that violent protests and extremism is not necessary, but I think blindly silencing ourselves in order to support the military is also a mistake.

Is protest to the war really hurting our troops as Bush and other U.S. officials have suggested? Is protest prohibiting them from succeeding? I don't think so. If anything, it is accelerating their return to U.S. soil.

If you willingly join the military, shouldn't you expect to find opposition to some of the missions you are sent on? You signed up to, in the end, obey the orders of the commander and chief... right? This post could go all sorts of directions. But I'm dumbfounded with the notion that soldiers are surprised or outraged by "policital harassments" and protests against their actions, and that they support war efforts more strongly to spite the supposed harassers.

If military families weren't initially so accepting of the foreign policies of people like Bush, perhaps their loved ones would not be in danger or fighting for causes they do not see as absolutely necessary to ensure the safety of the U.S.A. I'm not saying all military families are like this, it's obvious many oppose the current war. But I do think the initial push for the war was blindly accepted by many as they hung flags outside their houses... instead of thinking about the consequences of the war and saying... wait a minute, I don't agree with this!

The idea of blindly following the commander in chief out of duty and out of spite of those who oppose him is entirely wrong, IMO.

andyfox
09-27-2004, 11:33 AM
I think the percentage of anti-war people who publicly disrespect the troops is minimal.

During Vietnam, I marched in an anti-war protest here in Los Angeles. At one point, they decided to chant "F*ck the War." How stupid. We were trying to appear responsible and intelligent, and to get on the news. Instead, we came across at foul-mouthed hippies. So I agree with your point in your original post about certain behaviors being counterproductive.

IrishHand
09-27-2004, 08:02 PM
I'm in the military, and have been since the events of 9/11/01. I've yet to hear a single negative thing about my service in the military from anyone - and I have a ton of anti-military friends. As noted above, the opposition of civilians tends to be similar to that of politicians - anti-war, not anti-military.