Most Important Piece of Advice for a Beginner in PLO and PLO8?

[aLOWdAkING]

I'm mostly a HE and Stud/Stud8 player on Party, thinking about trying to learn PLO and PLO8 b/c it seems fun to learn and so profitable.

What's the most important thing a beginner should know in these games?

[Atropos]

In PLO: Always try to build the nuts, be very very aggressive. You can move players off hands much more easily then in nl holdem, and thats just cool /images/graemlins/smile.gif

PLO8: Doesnt seem to be a game worth playing to me. You have to play tight preflop, and tight afterwards. You will often have to go all-in with nut low + a slim chance to get nut high. It seems to me the rake is too high considering the nature of the party PLO8 games. But I dont know too much about PLO8, so take this with a grain of salt.

[Scotty O]

[ QUOTE ]
You can move players off hands much more easily then in nl holdem, and thats just cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree here. U can't move people out on PLO at the low limits easier than low limit NLHE. U have a lot more players will to draw to 2nd and 3rd best so if you dont play for the nuts, u may be in trouble.

I think table image is very import to establish here. Because players that get caught bluffing too often will get crushed by the experience players.

Good luck
-so

[Atropos]

I couldnt disagree more. You cant get players at lowlimit NL holdem to fold two pair even if there is 3 from a flush laying out there. In Omaha you can sometimes push them off a non-nut straight, bottom set, low flush...
And there are much more bluffing opportunities because everybody tries to get the nuts, but I think the nuts at Omaha are out there less frequently than a mediocre hand in holdem.

[Scotty O]

But the problem is, if you bluff or show that you like going strong with 2nd or 3rd, you will get eaten up. I love players that do that. Just watch out if you get played back at, if you do, u will have to dump or lose your stack.

Where do you play if you dont mind my asking?

[Big Dave D]

Learn to play tight first, but be very aware that this style can be extended, especially in PLO. And that both are games that revolve around the flop, that preflop advantages are very slim and its not hugely worthwhile ram jaming as a beginner.

And in the spirit of self publicity, a famous UK poster had this to say about my blog:

"which all budding PLO players should read."

gl

Dave

http://internetpokerpro.blogspot.com/

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
In PLO: Always try to build the nuts, be very very aggressive. You can move players off hands much more easily then in nl holdem, and thats just cool

PLO8: Doesnt seem to be a game worth playing to me. You have to play tight preflop, and tight afterwards. You will often have to go all-in with nut low + a slim chance to get nut high. It seems to me the rake is too high considering the nature of the party PLO8 games. But I dont know too much about PLO8, so take this with a grain of salt.

[/ QUOTE ]


When I read your posts they seem so genuine, yet they come from bizarro world.

In PLO if its so easy to move players off hands than in NL holdem what is the need to "build the nuts"?

And PLO/8 is a game definitely worth playing. No game will break the fishes faster, which is why the games on most sites are not that great anymore. It is nearly impossible for a fish to have a winning session in this game.

In the new "tight" PLO/8 games there is perhaps many more opportunities to move your opponents off a hand.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
'm mostly a HE and Stud/Stud8 player on Party, thinking about trying to learn PLO and PLO8 b/c it seems fun to learn and so profitable.

What's the most important thing a beginner should know in these games?

[/ QUOTE ]

In PLO/8 the most important thing to know is when to push low hands and when to let them go.

In PLO the most important thing to know is how to play and play against AA, it will eventually be the majority of your profit.

[Atropos]

"n PLO if its so easy to move players off hands than in NL holdem what is the need to "build the nuts"? "

You cant bluff them every time, you have to show down hands from time to time + to win big you have to call some all-ins + make worse hands call your all-in. I'm sure you know all of this, but just to make clear how I understand the game:

a) If you call//draw//bet expecting to get called, you need a better hand than in holdem, because the 4 hand cards give people better hands more often, especially in multiway pots.

b) Because most players now that the nuts are there more often than not, it's easier to bluff than in holdem. You dont need to "build the nuts" to bluff, you can do it with 4 random cards, since you dont expect to get called. Its possible my observations are flawed because I play holdem at party, and Omaha at Stars. But for example at party if I raise preflop with AKs, flop comes Q97. Even if I push all-in, any pair, even underpair wont fold. And I play mush tighter at holdem then at omaha, so its not because of bad table image.
Now at Omaha, I raise with AAXX preflop, and then the flop comes QJ9. Do you think J9XX will even call a pot sized bet?

I think every game is worth playing, because there are always bad players who hand you their money. I just dont like PLO8 because it doesnt give me the same options as PLO. In PLO preflop the good hands dont have a big edge over the substandard ones, the flop//turn defines the hand strength. Much of profit for good players who can make accurat reads. In PLO, your hand strength is still hugely dependent off your starting hand, because getting quartered is so brutal.
So you have to play tight preflop, and tight postflop, and the rake is really tough. Possible that fish lose their money fastest at PLO/8 because its a very complex game. However I have seen a player at PLO call down with TPTK on paired board/3 flush board. He didnt lose too slow either /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Scotty O]

[ QUOTE ]

Now at Omaha, I raise with AAXX preflop, and then the flop comes QJ9. Do you think J9XX will even call a pot sized bet?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes (depends). If its heads up, yes someone will call when they know you have AA THey have made there hand you havent. Will you push on the turn when a blank comes? I hope not. And if you can't release your hand, I love u man.

Scotty O /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Atropos]

Against me they cant know if I have AAXX, I'm raising too much /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Of course they will call sometimes, but if you raise with 5678 and the flop comes QQA, anyone without a Q will fold in Omaha. If you raise with 99 in holdem, and the board comes QQA, AK will not fold to a pot sized bet, I can guarantee you. There are some special cases where you will get called, but I think the overall probability that your opponents will fold to bluffs in marginal situations is higher in Omaha than in Holdem, because the "only the nuts" concept is burned into most players brains.

[greywolf]

i have read some of the post saying that its easier to bluff in omaha. . That is not really the truth even tho tehre are good spots to bluff in omaha. Omaha is the perfect game to make money but not because it is easy to bluff people out of the pots. NO People play omaha because they like the action. They dont want to fold they want to call that is why theres a ton of preflop limping with garbage like 2488 or 495sKs.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
In PLO: Always try to build the nuts, be very very aggressive. You can move players off hands much more easily then in nl holdem, and thats just cool /images/graemlins/smile.gif

PLO8: Doesnt seem to be a game worth playing to me. You have to play tight preflop, and tight afterwards. You will often have to go all-in with nut low + a slim chance to get nut high. It seems to me the rake is too high considering the nature of the party PLO8 games. But I dont know too much about PLO8, so take this with a grain of salt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing players off hands?? That depends on the game I guess. The only time I bluff in PLO is when I know my players and I know that they would only bet a set, and then if a straight card hits, I can bet it "representin'" also, I they raise and get it heads-up, smaller flushed and non-nut straights have value that they would not against multiple opponents.

Remember implied odds on the early betting rounds - you can be a little looser.

In PLO8, don't call pot sized bets with just a low draw - especially if you are heads-up.

PL Omaha is a gambling game, be prepared to buy in a few times. I once had to put in 6 times before finally scoring, and a ended up with a good profit. (long story but the CL pissed my off and I pledged I would bust him , and I did end up taking half his stack-he built up to about 8x the buy-in and I got half of in on hand!)

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
Against me they cant know if I have AAXX, I'm raising too much /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Of course they will call sometimes, but if you raise with 5678 and the flop comes QQA, anyone without a Q will fold in Omaha. If you raise with 99 in holdem, and the board comes QQA, AK will not fold to a pot sized bet, I can guarantee you. There are some special cases where you will get called, but I think the overall probability that your opponents will fold to bluffs in marginal situations is higher in Omaha than in Holdem, because the "only the nuts" concept is burned into most players brains.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont you think you should play more than 1000 hands - which is only like 4-10 sessions?

young and dumb (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1058416&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#1058416)

[Baseballa19]

[ QUOTE ]

b) Because most players now that the nuts are there more often than not, it's easier to bluff than in holdem. You dont need to "build the nuts" to bluff, you can do it with 4 random cards, since you dont expect to get called.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the nuts are there more often than not, and YOU don't have them, aren't you putting a lot of coin out as a bluff, just to be taken by the nuts?

And why wouldn't you expect to get called? Remember, the nuts are out there!