Bush the Optimist

[Dynasty]

I thought this Rasmussen poll (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Optimist%20or%20Pessimist.htm) was interesting.

66% of voters say President Bush is an optimist whereas only 40% see Senator Kerry that way. Only 18% of voters think of Bush as a pessimist whereas 41% see Kerry that way.

Even Kerry voters view President Bush more often as an optimist than a pessimist (39%/37%).

Optimism is good. Pessimism is bad. It's just one more hurdle Kerry needs to leap over.

[MMMMMM]

I would go so far as to observe, in the more general sense, that there seems to be a rather loose correlation between Leftism and Pessimism.

[3rdEye]

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I would go so far as to observe, in the more general sense, that there seems to be a rather loose correlation between Leftism and Pessimism.

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While you did provide the caveat that this is a "loose correlation," it is still an incorrect generalisation. There are pessimistic leftists (e.g., environmentalists and the Unabomber), optimistic leftists (who believe that humans have a natural tendency toward altruism), pessimistic conservatives (e.g., Pat Buchanan) and optimistic conservatives (e.g., Ronald Reagan).

[Knockwurst]

Joe and Jane Voter may base their vote on the optimism of a candidate -- I'm not sure. But optimism is not necessarily a virtue, particularly in perilous times. Unjustified optimism could be down right dangerous. Bush's, Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, and Wolfiwitz's unjustified optimism in a quick and neat outcome in Iraq is part of the reason we're there in the first place.

[sameoldsht]

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Bush's, Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, and Wolfiwitz's unjustified optimism in a quick and neat outcome in Iraq is part of the reason we're there in the first place.

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Can you direct me toward a speach or statement by any of these guys where they stated that it would be "quick and neat"?

[Knockwurst]

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Bush's, Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, and Wolfiwitz's unjustified optimism in a quick and neat outcome in Iraq is part of the reason we're there in the first place.

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Can you direct me toward a speach or statement by any of these guys where they stated that it would be "quick and neat"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a statement from any one member of this esteemed cadre stating that it would be "quick and neat"? I don't know. I was paraphrasing their general pre-war sentiments, such as the infamous line that we would be greeted as liberators with candy and flowers.

Another indication of their belief that it would be "quick and neat" is the troop levels that were assigned to Iraq after toppling Saddam's regime. Even the administration admits that their postwar planning was off due to unanticipated levels of resistance, I don't see how you could think otherwise. Less impartial observers believe that postwar planning has been nothing short of a disaster based on the administrations overly optimistic prewar assessments, and may eventually lead to civil war. See the administration's own recent intelligence assessments. There still aren't enough troops in the country to "pacify" it.

[Daliman]

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Bush's, Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, and Wolfiwitz's unjustified optimism in a quick and neat outcome in Iraq is part of the reason we're there in the first place.

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Can you direct me toward a speach or statement by any of these guys where they stated that it would be "quick and neat"?

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"MIssion Accomplished" goes a long way towards that.

[Knockwurst]

good point. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[anatta]

Well I thought when Wolfowitz testified at Congressional Hearing that we would be greeted as liberators and that we are talking about a Country that can fund its own reconstruction was rather optimistic.

I thought "we found them, WMD's" by Bush was an optimistic reading of the data.

I think all this we are making progress despite the fact that the CIA "guesses" to the contrary is rather optomistic.

In fact, name an issue on Iraq...WMDs, Aluminum tubes, trailers, initial estimates on cost of war in terms of $$, how much more more $$ we need as War progresses, troop size, allied help, Major combat operations are over, name it. Its always too optimistic (or interpreted to support administrations position).

In all fairness, Rumsfelds memo where he wonders whether we are creating more terrorists than killing isn't optimistic. You don't hear much of this though...

34 Suicide car bombings in September. Just think, if we hadn't invaded Iraq, these 34 "suiciders" would still be alive and threatening our shores!

[The Dude]

A conversation between an optimist and a pessimist:

Pessimist: This couldn't possibly get any worse.
Optimist: Sure it can.

[MMMMMM]

That does not make it an incorrect generalization, and I never claimed exclusivity of sets or subsets.

If you were to state there seems to be a loose correlation between bad poker players and a loose playing style, would the existence of some contrary examples mean that you had made an incorrect generalization?

[Abednego]

Let me answer for him ..... NO

[Daliman]

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Quote:
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Bush's, Cheney's, Rumsfeld's, and Wolfiwitz's unjustified optimism in a quick and neat outcome in Iraq is part of the reason we're there in the first place.


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Can you direct me toward a speach or statement by any of these guys where they stated that it would be "quick and neat"?

Let me answer for him ..... NO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm..then what's THIS? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1063211&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)
Funny that it's posted 7 hours before YOUR response.

Yet another example of republican investigative powers...

[Victor]

Dynasty,

I think your description is misleading. All incumbents are inherently required to be optimistic. They need to be to stay in office. They must say," Things are going well with me in office, and they will get better." No matter what the truth, it would be extremely dumb to say,"well, we are in some trouble and it seems like things are only gonna get worse."

Obviously, on the other hand, any challenger needs to say," my opp has screwed up and run the country (city, state, county, etc) nearly into ruin. If you dont elect me it will get even worse."

(in reference to another post in this thread)

As far as assigning pessimism to leftists and optimism to conservatives, although that may hold true for this election, it is a ludicrous generalization. You can certainly point out many instances of it but someone else could easily point out many times when conservatives were more pessismistic. Assuming that challengers are more pessimistic than incumbents would be a much truer generalization.

[Victor]

Heard a report on NPR today. It said a survey conducted concluded that 45% of Bush's ads are negative in nature (usually targeting Kerry) while only 35% of Kerry's are negative.

It also said that these numbers are usually reversed for incumbents.

I did not catch how they determined negativeness or any of the other deciding factors. Just though it was interesting to show how perception easily differs between people.

[Jimbo]

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Heard a report on NPR today.

[/ QUOTE ] This should have been the first clue that whatever you heard would be Pro Kerry.

Jimbo

[IrishHand]

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Assuming that challengers are more pessimistic than incumbents would be a much truer generalization.

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Yep - nature of the process.

[vulturesrow]

Oh please. The banner was in regards to the major combat operations which was true. Beautiful attempt at context twisting though.