watching an opponnet

Ok......like it should be, when you are not in a hand or if you are in a hand....you should be happy to drop out...and watch the rest of the hand and how it is played.


What I personally.....like to do....is sometimes zone in on one opponnet, I watch him.....

I look at him.....I watch his reaction.....to the board, I watch his face...then I look at the card that hit, hopefully when he flips over his hand at the showdown, I can learn exactly how he played....


What type of things should you look for in your opponnet.....

Obviously whether he bet, whether he checked....

when he called.....

I also like to look at a persons hands....the way they grab their chips....and the way they throw them in......


What things do you look for in your opponnets to get a good grasp on their play?

a copy of Caro's "Book of Tells" or his video?

These "tools" should help U in understanding your opponent(s).

Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

Hard to do on Internet Poker

It's hard for me to read people in Casino Poker. I'm really not good at it, but....


To keep people from reading you -- you can delay reading the board cards to hinder people from reading you. Gaze at the board cards but don't concentrate on them immediately.

The eyes are the first place to be looking. Watch them as the cards come off.

how they handle their card: do they protect them? if so, how?


which way do they look? right? left? at the ceiling? at other players?


does their hand move towards their chips? does it grab a stack? part of a stack? does it absent-mindedly count chips?


How long do they look at their cards? half second? quarter second? full second?


when do they babble? when do they shut up?


almost every time i watch a player i find something new to look out for...

this is exactly what I mean.......I appreciate it......What I usually look for....


1)their eyes as soon as the flop hits...

2)the way they grab their chips when they put them in and how they put them in-this tells so much

3)the way their mood changes....when they are in a hand.....


I've read......Mike Caro's books but he gives.....general examples...and doesn't really go into specifics, don't get me wrong, the books helps so much.....but it's these little specifics which I'm looking for.....

What does it usually mean when a player meekly check-raises the turn??

Just wondering..

Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

Good comment. When the flop comes down, I am usually sitting back, trying to gaze at as many faces as possible. I usually don't check the board until the action is on me.

that when you are watching other players, you sometimes see them watching other players. This can indicate how well they play, and can contradict information received from other behaviors they may be projecting.

I loved Caro's book and in many ways consider it a work of genius. He mentions timing when he discusses how long a player looks at the flop, but I try to time how long they do a lot of things.


I'm not sure if Caro mentions tone of voice. To me this is important, but falls under the category of listening to players rather than watching them. When the clam up and don't say anything is part of this category.


I find timing and listening to be my biggest money makers, but that may be my idiosyncracy (idiocy), and not relevant for all players.

if you notice sometimes, when an opponnet, has already seen the flop......and he begins to stare at another opponnnet......he usually has something Marginal.....for instance....


Opponnet A: raises

Opponnet B: calls the raise....


Flop comes A 3 7


Opponnet A: checks the flop.....now he starts to look at player B.

Opponnet B: has not yet acted.....


usually but not all the time, this means, that Opponnet A obviously does not have Aces...... and probably has a pair of 10's through Kings...

It doesn't happen often, but when players who watch other players when the flop comes up....and then all of a sudden stop watching the players to me it means, and this is generally true, they don't care what the other person has, they are infact going with their hand....I've seen this time and time again.

Also the opposite works, if opponnet A were to keep watching B.....he doesn't have a strong hand...just something Marginal especially if he raised before the flop.


Also...when i watch an opponnet, I usually get caught staring at them and then....they immediately look away...either because they are intimidated...or they don't have hand. Most of time thought they don't want to be looked at...because in their mind..they are thinking..."What is he looking at?? I didn't do anything wrong."

Well if you subscribe to Poker Digest I encourage you to take a look at Matt Lessinger's article...in the lastest issue.


There are good players out there....meekly check raising the turn, means "THIS GUY HAS A HUGE HAND"

They want to seem as if they are unsure if the checkraise..is the best play....when infact it is the best play.....and they are usually holding the nuts or the near nuts....

that is in part also a tell.....their tone of voice, but the thing is this....Tells even though are part of the game, they are not as big as we all like to think, but sometimes....it could mean the difference of picking up a pot....if we know he is weak or if he is marginal.....


For instance, i was playing one night, and I had ultra total respect from all the players....

I was holding A3o in the big blind, the flop came

J 4 5 rainbow, I checked, one person bet at the button and I raised..obviously I knew this was the correct play for many reasons....all night when i checkraised, i was usually holding a huge hand and when it got shown down I usually won...plus the guy who bet...was

A) capable of laying down a hand

B) played a lot of garbage hands


I made this decision very fast and without hesitation, he showed me a 5 and mucked it.....

Obviously I had outs to my hand so that is why I made the play as well.


This is why Table Image also plays a roll in tells....because you can completely exploit these players if you are a strong strong player and posses a very tight agressive image....


One time I also.....did this....because of such a table image....even though I did infact lose the hand.


Standard 10-20 game at the TAJ, There was a raise.....all folded to me in the BB and I called with JJ, flop came up rags......I check raised him on the flop and he called....on the turn, I checked and he checked behind me...., on the river, i didn't get the card I needed a J obviosuly.....and I checked again, HE CHECKED TOO.....so I flipped over my JJ, thinking it was the winner.....but he held AA, now think about it.....who really is the winner of that hand...he looked at the table after he took down the pot and said, I THOUGHT HE FLOPPED TWO PAIR!!....

Do you see what table image does.....


One more thing.....When someone raises before the flop.....and they get a couple of callers......real smoothly without any hesitation.....they bet the flop if they are first to act.....this means....they have a pair usually a high pair...because if they had AK or AQ, it would seem like an unnatural bet....not very free flowing if they flopped rags and value bet....this also is a tell......


because one time.....I was holding JJ again in the BB.....and UTG raised, again, all folded to me....and I called....flop came rags, and real free flowing she bet out....I would like to tell you that mucked the Jacks....but I went into a check and call mode...to the river, and she flipped over KINGS....well with hard experience like that, I will know now......what those free smooth bets mean....."HIGH PAIR"....


You have to have playing experience to pick these things up.....and it's not that hard.....but like I said you need EXPERIENCE.


-COMMENTS APPRECIATED.....

What does it usually mean when a player meekly check-raises the turn??


That's got to be the one-liner of the year Mr. Sitting Bull Duplessis. I'm still chuckling.


Best of luck to you. Billy (LTL)

Matt's article comparing a Level2 player to a Level3 player.

Matt stated that a Level3 player would check-raise the turn "meekly" to give the impression that his hand was weak;but a Level2 player would "forcefully" check-raise the turn.

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It seems as though the Level3 thinker would be given away a classical "tell"--acting weak when he is strong(Caro's tell).

******************

In addition,Y check-raise the turn in a multi-way pot if he had a weak hand??

Just on the basis of "logic", convincing a field of decent opponents that his hand was weak did not make sense. Whether he check-raises"forcefully" or "meekly"--he would usually have to have a strong hand in a multiway pot.

**********************************

When Matt stated that the Level3 thinker,by the way he played the hand,was better than the Level2 thinker,I was completely confused.

It seemed to me ,by check-raising "forcefully",the Level2 player made a much better move than the Level3 player(acting strong-although,in this case,it was no act(LOL).

So Y would Matt say that the Level3 player is a more "advanced" player than Level2 thinker??

************


Just was wondering what U players thought about this article. Still "confused" about Matt's "logic".


Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

I have not read the article, but based on the info in the synopsis posted, here's my thinking:


A Level 1 player check-raises; a Level 0 player is going to call more than likely, while a Level 2 or Level 3 player is going to get away from any non-monster.


A Level 2 player check-raises "meekly"; a Level 0 player calls while a Level 1 player calls because of the weakness of the bet (or so the theory goes). Level 3 player gets away from his hand without hesitation.


A Level 3 player check-raises forcefully; a Level 0 player calls on autopilot. A Level 1 player assesses his hand and calls/folds on that basis. A Level 2 player puts himself into that position and either calls or raises to snap off an "obvious" bluff.


A Level 3 player is capable of the weak-when-strong ploy, but understands the level at which his opponent(s) play and can adjust and/or randomize accordingly.


Just my $.02 (and that's coming out of my bankroll)...


Big John