Anything I missed .. losing hearts ...

[DeeJ]

Losing again. Unscared poker (1) and scared poker (2) ... ?!

Hand 1 check-call/fold the river, right?
Hand 2 where does one get away from this? Anyone play this differently? Check the flop behind? Call the river?

Paradise Poker 8/16 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB doesn't show.
Hero has 9d Kd (two pair, kings and fives).
UTG has Qh 8h (flush, king high).
Outcome: UTG wins 9.50 BB. </font>


Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB doesn't show.
Outcome: BB wins 6.75 BB. </font>

[mmcd]

Hand 2:

Bet the turn, take the free showdown.

[steveyz]

I'd bet the turn on hand 2, easy fold to a check-raise.

[1800GAMBLER]

Def. go betfold on the river in hand 1. That's much more important than hand 2.

[DeeJ]

Yeah, the overplaying of hand 1 told me not to play when tired /images/graemlins/frown.gif

With hindsight it's obvious he has a flush, and even the way I played it I could have easily folded to the river raise as the pot was not enormous.

Hand 2 as the others pointed out the place to bet was the turn rather than take the free river as I might have taken the pot then (although it was large and villain was more unlikely to fold).

[Saborion]

[ QUOTE ]
Def. go betfold on the river in hand 1.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because UTG will have a PP &lt; K often enough to make that bet profitable? And because of the very slim (non-existant?) chance that UTG may fold a K with a better kicker on that river?

[1800GAMBLER]

A king and a flush draw will bet if you check (massively -EV river play). A king, flush draw and lower pocket pairs will at least call when you bet (less -EV river play). Hence if you are going to showdown you should betfold instead of checkcall so you don't miss value from worst Ks and pocket pairs and well, a higher percentage than most would imagine just ace high.

Explained better (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=871284&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart=all&amp;vc=1) check out my posts at the bottom.

[Robb]

Hello 1800,

I like a bet/fold on the river here as well.

However, against observant opponents..they can periodically throw in a raise on the river with a medium hand with which they were intending to call and exploit your play.

Alternative methods will need to be employed against them... imho.

Regards,
Jamie