ATs UTG raise

[steveyz]

This table had been playing on the tight side. No particular reads on the opponents here.

3-bet this flop? Call the river?

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Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7.83 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (10.83 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11.83 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 10.83 BB, won by BB.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to BB.</font>

[JimmyV]

I don't like this line at all. I'd bet the flop, then 3-bet if BB checkraises, so that AJ and AK have to call two cold on the button. If you get position you can take the free card if you feel like it, but only if button folds the flop.

And the river call is mandatory.

JimmyV

[Knockwurst]

I like betting out on the flop too, like jimmyv said, with the idea that the button's going to raise and get the BB to fold so you can be heads up with the button. But the way it played out the BB checkraised now you're not sure if he has a hand or he's making a move to get it heads up with the button. The way he bet out on the turn and river, I give him a queen, and even if he doesn't have your pair of tens beat there's still the button to act behind you, so I think a fold on the river isn't bad.

[steveyz]

My reason for checking the flop was that I didn't really what to knock out the BB, esp because I felt a button raise likely means that I'm drawing. There are no outs that I need to clean up. The only had I'd like BB to fold would be something like KJ so that an Ace could win it for me but KJ isn't going anywhere on that board.
My plan was to check-raise if the button bet and the BB called. BB's check-raise threw a wrench into things.

[goofball]

if i were in this spot i would 3 bet the flop close to 100% of the time.

[lil']

Why not just three bet the flop for value? I assume you have 11 clean outs here.

[arabie]

Firstly, I wouldn't raise ATs UTG, I believe its a hand that you want to raise more often in later positions once you know that the pot has a significant amount of players. Also, the flop should definitely be bet or check-raised, your pot equity is large enough to make value bets.

[Knockwurst]

Like a lot of other people said, if you aren't going to bet out on the flop, I like three betting the flop for value.

[DeeJ]

3-bet the flop, strong draw to nuts. Ed M has this ATs (or very similar) example in his book someplace, reraise because any spade, Ten and probably Ace gives you a really big hand. Otherwise I'm the same all the way.

[steveyz]

Sometimes I limp with it, sometimes I raise. Depend on how tight the table has been playing. At this particular time, this table was playing very tight, so I thought my UTG raise would win me the blinds or get me heads up with one of the blinds. Also, I could get hands like AJo and even AQo to fold behind me. If I had limped, chances are someone would have raised behind me and it would have ended up heads up or 3-handed with me having bad position.
I think the merits of raising vs limping ATs in certain situations have been discussed a lot in the past.

[arabie]

Interesting justification. If you believed that a raise may protect your hand it could have some value. However, don't forget that an UTG raise is going to eliminate a lot of the hands you do want it in. Also, I don't know about the mentality of trying to steal the blinds from UTG, you have no hint at any of the playing whether it be tells or betting style. Lastly, in a tight table if you believe someone behind you is most likely going to raise you, why do you confidently think they would fold that hand to your raise. Your preflop reasoning is decent, but these are some things to also consider. More importantly getting the value on the flop should be your largest concern.

[arabie]

one last thing, if you think a 3 bet pre-flop will have you invest a lot of money in a bad position, why is a 3 bet more likely to happen from a raise behind you vs. your UTG raise. Wouldn't the result end up the same (3 bets invested in bad position)?

[roy_miami]

I would 3-bet the flop and lead the turn 100% of the time. River should play easier with this line.