Raise this on the turn? on the river?

[steveyz]

No reads on any of the opponents involved in this hand.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero ???














Given that I chickened out .....









-------------------------------------------------
calls, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero ???

[AceHigh]

Raise somewhere. I don't mind smooth calling the turn if you plan to raise the river and you think it likely mp2 will bet the river.

In most cases think it unlikely mp2 will bet the river so I would raise the turn.

[Knockwurst]

Turn card is perfect for you. If you can't raise here, then you should have folded on the flop.

Raise and if you get three bet by anyone but MP2 give serious consideration to folding.

I think if you raise here, there's a good chance the river would get checked to you and then bet out. You've got the winning hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Knockwurst]

AceHigh, I don't know about a smooth call here on the turn. Don't you want to charge the flush draw the max on the turn, because you're not going to get his call on the river when he misses.

[DeeJ]

Well to me the turn is the place since you may be forced out or at best slowed down if the flush hits the river.

I would probably be terrified by QQ or AQ or even AA beating me ..... best to raise and see what happens /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you want to charge the flush draw the max on the turn,

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, raising the turn is probably best. But he might get the flush draw to bluff on the river, if he is an aggressive player.

I was trying to say calling on the turn wasn't best, but it's OK if you raise the river and you are doing it as some sort of metagame, I sometimes just call with best hand, so I can raise later, sort of play. But not OK, if you are doing it because you are afraid someone has trips and plan on just calling down. Am I making any sense?

[DrGutshot]

I would probably wind up raising the turn (folding to the 3bet if he seemed solid). However - isn't there a good argument for calling down? (lose the least+win the most) if you're ahead? He would probably bluff the river if he missed his draw, he would certainly 3bet AQ/QQ (which, admit it, it could be hard to lay this down to a 3bet), and he would bet the river with KQ/QJ as well. if he checks the turn, bet the river, and he will call with most pairs as well.

Thoughts?
-DrGutshot

[steveyz]

It was not trips I was afraid of, but rather that MP's play looked a lot like AQ.

[steveyz]

Yeah I don't think I could lay down to a turn 3-bet, esp if it was from MP2 since a very aggressive player could have Ax of hearts or even something like KJ/JT of hearts. One argument for raising the river (if the flush doesn't come) is that it would be a lot easier to fold to the 3-bet.