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Ledererfan
09-25-2004, 04:53 AM
Why do people expect their opponents to fold down inferior hands simply because someone is being aggressive?

My first thought is that players call bets because they obviously don't know with any absolute certainty what the agressor may hold. Of course, if one knew for a fact that the aggressor had the much superior hand, i.e. AA vs 45s (an extreme example, which may not be a good analogy), that player should probably fold, but since this is a game of hidden information (I can't see my opponent's cards - usually!!), why wouldn't I attempt a draw (see the flop), especially if the bet/raise wasn't too steep?

Well, anyhow, lambasting an opponent at the table for playing an inferior hand and sucking out on the flop, turn or river seems conterproductive. Why would I want to tell my opponent what a horrible play he made? I would rather encourage him with remarks such as "very nice catch"!. "Goes to show that 'you don't need the biggest hand, only the best'" (Phil Helmuth)

I always hear players talking about, "I had your ass until the river". What's the point here? The opponent doesn't know that he's badly beaten! Hell, I guess I could say, upon looking at my 27o, that "I had you beat before you looked at your cards".

OK, so, if I'm holding, for example, KK and my opponent should bet me 2/3 of my stack, should I assume that he has me beaten and fold immediately? What if I call and he's got AA and I catch a lucky flop with a K, would that be considered a suck out, and would I then be considered an idiot for calling this bet?

How many people here would fold JTs to a player's aggressive bet pre-flop? And if we catch a 4-flush, should we fold to an all-in? What if we had A5s and caught a 4-flush no pair flop?

I'm done! awaiting my lambasting.

I hope my grammar was correct! Did I use "who" and "that" where appropriate?

TheJackal
09-25-2004, 05:14 AM
Some people find it difficult to let a bad beat go without telling our opponent what an idiot he is... Before I strictly played online instead of at my local casino, I'd go on tilt in the low limit games that I play in because I would see incredible suck outs at $4-8. Playing online has helped me because I've taken so many bad beats given the amount of hands I have played, I let it roll off me. I use to tilt my money away, but not anymore.
I've come the conclusion that if I am the best player at the table, a situation that is out of my control (such a bad beat) should be welcomed because I had my opponent put his money in with the worst of it, and the element of luck which helps everyone at some point in poker prevailed... mathmatics are on anyone's side who plays well, I'll get him later, (unless it's NL, I might get bounced, by if my EV+, I have no regrets).
I don't have a real answer for why people behave as they do, some are ultra-competetive with massive egos (Phil Hellmuth) and feel that they are so much better than the opponents they are facing that it's an injustice to take a bad beat and they feel the need to remind everyone how great they are and how crappy the other person is... I think if you want an answer, you should read the "Psychology of Poker" by Alan Sch something or rather (I've never read it but I hear it deals with a lot of why people tilt, etc...)

Ledererfan
09-25-2004, 05:38 AM
It just seems as if ppl think this is a game of 100% skill. Not even chess involves 100% skill: ah, the many times I got lucky that my opponent didn't see the winning mate in 4 because he was low on time. Or the times my opponent got unlucky and I called him on a touch-move obligation. And of course there's the times I got unlucky enough to have to play a MAster rated 600 points above me.

There's luck in poker, folks. That's why we wannabes play. If it weren't for luck, afterall, Hellmuth would "win 'em all, right"? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

daryn
09-25-2004, 05:50 AM
wow, i thought you were gonna be just another idiot (don't take offense), but you ended up making a lot of sense. kudos to you, ledererfan!

Kurn, son of Mogh
09-25-2004, 10:06 AM
Wow. Someone who gets it.

The luck factor is what makes the game profitable. If everybody played tactically correct poker it would be virtually impossible to win.

twankerr
09-25-2004, 12:29 PM
The KK and AA situation...

If you go all-in there he can't possibly be pissed at you. It's the play HE would make in the same situation.