Venting, bigstack clowns that won't pull the trigger

[Granite]

One of my big peeves is a bigstack that won't pull the trigger.
Playing a sng today on the bubble, big blind is 200 and only the bigstack and the shortstack are playing the hand. Shortstack has 420 left,we see the flop, bigstack bets 200 and then the shortstack pushes (he will have to pay the sb next hand).

Bigstack then types in "I only have middle pair, what should I do". This guy is a moron and the only reason he is bigstack is the deck hitting him in the face.

You can guess his next move, he folds, for only an extra 220 out of his 3000 stack.

Anyhow, nothing new that you all haven't seen. I feel better now.

Granite

[byronkincaid]

Never call /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[rjb03]

I seem to have the opposite problem with the big stacks at my tables. They will call a tight opponent who is just about short stacked with cards that will very likely double him up and drag out the bubble even longer. I know that is a good strategy for some, but not for these people, as they are usually the ones eliminated on the bubble with a 3:1 chip lead.

[Solitare]

That's nothing. I was playing in a game with 4 left where I had around T1000 against a shortstack of T310 on the button with two huge stacks in the blinds (at 100/200). The shortstack went all in and neither blind called, letting the shortstack double up without seeing a card. Of course I wound up in 4th.

[The Yugoslavian]

This actually makes a lot of sense on the bubble. This has been mentioned elsewhere but it is worth repeating: The big stack doesn't want to eliminate the short stack on the bubble b/c he knows that he can keep stealing blinds as the table will continue to be tight waiting to get into the money.

This is definitely frustrating if you're one of the mid to low stacks, but given the situation, it may be correct for the big stack to fold with *any* pocket pair here (yes, even AA). Instead of winning the blinds plus a couple hundred extra chips, the big stack stands to steal much more than that the longer he can keep the shorter stacks active.

[chill888]

Venting, bigstack clowns that won't pull the trigger ??

Personally, anyone that makes a post with that title has big huge leaks in his game. Discuss ....

gl

[Granite]

I'm sure I have plenty of leaks, but I am learning. So you don't have leaks? discuss.....

I understand the concept of extending the bubble for as long as possible if you are the bigstack and are stealing away.

If you had read my post, instead of just the title, you would see that the bigstack wasn't thinking "lets keep this guy in", he was on a steal, that he backed out of.

Granite

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure I have plenty of leaks, but I am learning. So you don't have leaks? discuss.....

I understand the concept of extending the bubble for as long as possible if you are the bigstack and are stealing away.

If you had read my post, instead of just the title, you would see that the bigstack wasn't thinking "lets keep this guy in", he was on a steal, that he backed out of.

Granite

[/ QUOTE ]


I fear u missed my point.

It always seems strange to me when people complain about bad play. Bad play helps good players (at least on average) - so why worry about it in the short run? So what if an idiot helped another player?

Relax and enjoy.

[Granite]

Fair enough, your right. I'll relax.

Cheers,
Granite

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
This actually makes a lot of sense on the bubble. This has been mentioned elsewhere but it is worth repeating: The big stack doesn't want to eliminate the short stack on the bubble b/c he knows that he can keep stealing blinds as the table will continue to be tight waiting to get into the money.

This is definitely frustrating if you're one of the mid to low stacks, but given the situation, it may be correct for the big stack to fold with *any* pocket pair here (yes, even AA). Instead of winning the blinds plus a couple hundred extra chips, the big stack stands to steal much more than that the longer he can keep the shorter stacks active.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this concept really applies in SnGs, where the big stack will still be the big stack even once everyone is in the money. I think it applies much more in an MTT situation where the play is down to 2 tables, you're the big stack at your table, but you won't be a big stack once someone gets knocked out and the tables are consolidated. In that situation, it can indeed be to your advantage to make some strange folds if doing so will let you be the boss stack for a while longer.

[The Yugoslavian]

Yes, this concept definitely applies much more to MTTs as discussed in probably every tournament book. However, it seems reasonable that the same principle can apply to SNG tournaments. I definitely think that tables tighten up (to a lesser extent than MTTs) on the bubble in SNGs and that it is something that can be taken advantage of depending on the context, etc. I think the key concept for SNGs is that people play significantly tighter on the bubble than they do 5 handed or 3 handed and if you're the big stack this can be used to your advantage.

That being said, I"m sure I'd call in the example with a big pair and most likely with a mid-pair as well. But, if the table is playing very tight I'd be tempted to fold in such a situation and keep on stealing the blinds.