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View Full Version : Set in a raised pot, could I have won more?


Fortitude
09-24-2004, 11:26 PM
No reads.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (17 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 23 BB

I didn't raise the flop because everyone would call anyways and I'd rather get that value raise in on the turn.

My question is, should I have 3 bet the river? Will my opponent be on some obscene 2 pair more often than not to make this a profitable 3-bet? It seems to be the answer is quite clearly yes as the only hand I really need to be afraid of is a miracle chasing fish holding 78.

Thoughts and other examples / ideas of similar value raises are appreciated

cold_cash
09-25-2004, 12:08 AM
With the whole field trapped I think you have to raise the flop here. Chances are that even if the SB bets out on the turn at least a couple of them are going to fold. You also might luck out and get a chance to 3-bet, or have the SB pull a stop and go on the turn.

On the river I'd just call the raise and hope the SB calls behind me.

cold_cash
09-25-2004, 12:49 AM
I misread the flop and thought everyone called the SB's bet. My bad. Going to bed now...

Nottom
09-25-2004, 12:55 AM
I'd raise the flop becasue everytime I smoothcall here one of two things happens. 1) SB decided to check 2) SB bets and everyone folds to me. Flop raises just usually lead to more action.

I'd 3-bet the river becasue i don't fear the monster under the bed. He has J9 way more often than he has you beat.

Fortitude
09-25-2004, 12:57 AM
I was fairly confident SB would bet out on the turn and I'd get a chance to raise the whole field again. I don't think raising the flop helps me get people out of pot and it certainly isn't as valuable in terms of bets as raising the entire field on the turn. I think I should only be raising the flop if I feel I won't be able to trap the field for a raise on the turn.

What are you afraid UTG or SB may have? This is 2-4 remember. It's highly unlikely either of them is slowplaying a set that they didn't bother re-raising on the turn. If you've played much 2-4, you know how common raising a fishy 2 pair is and since the only holdings I really need to be afraid of are 99 and 78, I think a re-raise is correct. Disagree?

Fortitude
09-25-2004, 01:04 AM
That makes more sense, would you say you raise in this situation almost 100% of the time? I'd say I raise here somewhere in the neighborhood of 66% of the time, if I feel I can trap everyone on the turn in the same way, I'll just call but if I have any of the fears that you mentioned, It's better to raise right then and there.

bisonbison
09-25-2004, 01:06 AM
raise the flop because it looks like a flush draw and you may get 3-bet. If you get 3-bet you can decide whether to cap or raise the turn.

Nottom
09-25-2004, 01:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
That makes more sense, would you say you raise in this situation almost 100% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty close.