KK Big pot--did I play this ok?

[BottlesOf]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (12 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (18 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 20 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 20 BB, between UTG and Hero.</font>

[AustinDoug]

Why didn't you raise the flop?

[Festus22]

Preflop good of course.

Flop call - waiting until the turn to raise - good.

Bad turn card comes, a player wakes up, you just overcall - good.

River brick - huge pot crying call made - good.

What could possibly be done differently?

[BottlesOf]

I'm not sure about the flop.

[Festus22]

There is a VERY similar example in SSHE involving kings and waiting until the turn to raise to protect your hand. While there certainly could be an equity argument made for raising the flop, I think the nature of the board and associated gutshots makes waiting a better play.

[MoreWineII]

I think this was a good time to wait until the turn to raise. But that concept always confuses me so I'm not sure. The rest looks fine, imo.

[AustinDoug]

When I cap pre-flop, I expect people to put me on a hand exactly like you had. So I'm not really thinking about waiting till the turn to raise.

I'd raise the flop hoping to knock out someone with the 9 10 draw and to see if the original better is going to represent AA. Depending on the flop action, it would have been a lot easier to release on the turn if the action heats up there.

[Malcom Reynolds]

Raising the flop will give odds for a gutshot or better to MP2, and the rest you can expect to call one more bet. So raising doesn't really protect your hand here, if it is done it's for value (which may not be incorrect). I like waiting for the turn here, and acting based on what falls and the betting to you, as you played it.

[Malcom Reynolds]

Your raise will only knock out one guy. So I don't think it's very effective at protecting your hand, and works mostly as a value raise if done.

[bunky9590]

Looks okay, but I probably raise the flop. Not that anyone is going to fold mind you. If someone has QJ, I have the blockers. So hammer away. Pot is big so I at least try to use SB to make UTG face two more cold. But, Thats just me. There are merits to waiting until the turn as well.

But I would apply the pressure immediately.

[AustinDoug]

you've convinced me. I might still raise for value though, but I'm a chip spewer.

[jrobb83]

With only one player yet to put money in the pot after you, waiting till the turn does not significantly improve your chances at protecting your hand.

I think you have to raise the flop here for a few reasons. Your pot equity is huge here, and everybody who has put money in the pot will be willing to put some more in. The same people may not be willing to put in money on the turn. The bettor may 3-bet with a T, which would make you so happy you would cry. As I said above, waiting till the turn to raise does not really protect your hand that much more than the flop raise.

[BottlesOf]

Yeah, I thought there was also a fair shot that the betting would be similar on the turn (maybe a fold or 2 after the bet) So then, I might be protecting my hand, or, I might force these guys to call 2 on the expensive street, when my equity was even larger.

[Nate tha' Great]

How does waiting till the turn protect your hand?

[BottlesOf]

see my reply to morewhineII for why a turn raise may be better, for vlaue not protection reasons.

[BottlesOf]

i did it more for value reasons, see my resp. to morewhine II

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
The bettor may 3-bet with a T, which would make you so happy you would cry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that's exactly why you want to raise the flop right now.

[jrobb83]

But a variety of things could happen that would cause waiting untill the turn to have less value. Some people who decided to take one off on the flop and would have gotten trapped for 2 sbs may fold for a turn bet. And the sb may decide he likes his T or overpair enough to 3-bet. It's close, but I still prefer raising the flop.