Etiquette Question

Sitting in a 15-30 game last night, and a player on my right is raising what seems like a bit too many hands, winning a lot of pots, and not showing down many hands (opponents are folding before the showdown).


Anyway, I don't know this player, and am interested in finding out if he's just getting good cards or if he's trying to steal pots.


I pick up AJo in mid-position. Player who's been raising too much raises, I three bet, and get it heads-up. He bets the whole way and I call the whole way (ending up with Ace-high on the river).


He announces "King-high" after I call him on the river. I say "Ace-high" and wait. He says, "You got me," but doesn't muck and doesn't turn his cards over.


I wait and insist that he either muck or turn his cards over before I do (I wanted to see exactly what he had been betting/raising the whole way). He eventually turns over his King-high (K9o) and I take the pot.


After this hand, a couple players at the table start harassing me that I should have just turned over my hand as soon as he called his hand and I knew I had a winner. I argued that I wasn't slow-rolling, as I immediately announced my hand as well, and that I had a legitimate right to see his cards without looking like a jerk.


Thoughts?


DC

You're right, but I wouldn't do it.


The reason is that if he is constantly getting out of line, you don't want to embarrass him into playing better. Against what might be a live one, if he says king high, I will say ace-high and show my ace.


However, against a possible better player, I might insist on seeing his hand as you did. You paid for that right, and might learn something from it.

When you announce to the table that you have a winning hand, it's best to show it immediately. After he announces "King high", you could choose to remain silent so that he shows his cards. Then, you could show the winner. It's the combination of announcing that you win and not showing your hand quickly which is probably a small breach of etiquette. It is a form of slow-rolling although I know that wasn't the goal.

The bettor shows and you paid to see his hand. You did nothing wrong as long as you weren't an ass about it.


Jeff

As soon as you call your hand, show it. Mason is right, that you don't want to embarass the guy. Mike Caro once said, "if you're not going to kill them, let them save face."


If the other guy undercalled his hand and slow rolls you or something, then he's the one with the etiquette problem. Even here, it might piss me off, but I wouldn't show it.

Poker is a game that has hidden information. You bet money not only becuase you believe you have the winning hand, but also to buy that hidden information. If you always show your hand and insist that you want to see what you bought, the players in your showdown will soon learn to show their hands. Another approach is to say something like, "BTW, what do you have. I only have Ace-high with a nine, and I was really worried that you might have also have an ace-high but with a card higher than my nine.

It really depends on what you are playing for....ego or money.

If you are playing for ego then make sure everyone at the table knows you had such a good read that you were able to beat this guy before anyone else could with only your A-hi.(not saying you are like that or felt that way)

If on the other hand you are playing for money then let everyone know you misread your hand thinking you had middle pair or something and ended up with only A-hi....lucky you that it won /images/smile.gif

I play for money & I have found that happy people lose more than unhappy people. Keep the guy playing just the way he is. Also don't encourage others to take shots at him since they will get in your way! Just let him quietly muck and on the the next hand.

So while you were within the code of conduct you could also cost yourself money.

1 Leg Lance

I call what you did a slowroll. If all you wanted was to see his hand, then don't say anything. How he happened to play other hands that night is irrelevant. Running him out of the game is irrelevant. (Unlike Mason, I do not believe ethical choices should be made solely based on potential profit and loss.)


What is relevant is that you knew you had the winner, and you announced that you had a winner, in effect saying to the opponent, "You don't have to turn your hand over because I am about to turn my hand over and my hand beats your hand."


To do anything but turn over your hand at that point is a slowroll, IMO.


Tommy

I play against habitual slow rollers so any more I will not turn over my hand until it is my turn. After getting slow rolled a few times in very nasty ways it has become my way regardless of the game...which probably isnt right since all people arent slow rollers.

I am a little late to this party, but I think it is a mistake to make a live one feel uncomfortable by forcing him to show his hand. However, what you can do in future situations where you want to see his hand is to simply state: "Show'em or throw-em". Under the rules, he is required to show his hand first.