Playing flushes

[janeg]

Hi All ... I am a rank newbie (only started playing in June); played my first real-money game (if you can call .02/.04 real money /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) yesterday on Poker Stars. From what I can see, using Poker Tracker and after analyzing my play to date I am (sad to say) pretty much tight/weak/passive. I know I need to be more aggressive but have difficulty recognizing just when I should be.

These are two flush hands I played yesterday; 1 I won, the other I lost. I would really appreciate advice on how such situation are best played. I'd only been at the table approx 1hr and only had a read on two players. Neither of them were in the 1st hand

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.02.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 (poster) calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Think I should have raised vs bet on the flop and then re-raised the button; had a pair higher than the board w/back door draw to possible nut flush. At the time I didn't think 2 pair although I should have with a 9,8 on the board as many people play connectors. Does that possiblity make a call ok or is it better to raise and see who calls?


Turn: (12 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

The turn card made me nervous 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif now I was up against a possible straight flush, straight or made flush. Again I played passively and just called although in retrospect perhaps I should have folded with 2 player in.


River: (22 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 25 BB, between Button, Hero and UTG+2.</font>

I made the flush on the river was not sure if the Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif gave me the nut flush so I checked and called the Button bet.

This next hand is another flush with middle cards. I did have a bit of a read on UTG+1, tight/weak

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds.

Made the flush on the flop w/inside straight/str8 flush draw. Once more I was passive and merely called a bet; believe I should have raised but was unsure of the 9 high card.

Turn: (4.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

The Q killed at least one overcard; again, should I have raised here? Or was calling cheapest solution, if I was playing dead, calling seemed cheapest option.

River: (6.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8.50 BB, between MP2 and Hero.</font>

River paired the board; didn't think a FH was likely.

Thanks

[zram21]

If you just started playing yesterday then you can't draw any meaningful stats out of poker tracker. The sample size is way too small to determine what type of player you are yet.

Hand 1:
Raise on the flop. You likely have the best hand and the pot is so big that by not raising you are giving anyone with just an A or a K the correct odds to see the turn.

After the flop I think you played the hand fine. Don't back off just because the 3rd card of a flush comes out unless people give you reason to. After they bet you had reason to slow down and it looks like the button hit his flush, but you still have a good draw to a flush of your own and the pot is huge.

Hand 2:
Again you have to raise this flop. You have a great hand. Stop looking for monsters under the bed. Players are likely to call 2 cold here on the flop (although it seems they wouldn't have on this hand). Get your money in while you likely have the best hand.

The turn is a pretty scary card for you so from that point on I think you played the hand fine.

[jar]

I'm a relative newbie, but I'll offer my advice. Take it with a grain of salt until some more experienced posters chime in.

Hand 1
Raise the flop. You have an overpair to the board, and a backdoor draw to the 3rd nut flush. At this level, SB's bet means nothing more than he's holding 2 cards. If you get 3 bet, I'd call and see what the turn brings.

Hand 2
Raise the flop. Don't automatically give credit for the higher flush until someone raises back at you. I'm not sure about the turn. It depends on whether MP2 still bets out after you raise the flop. If you get 3-bet on the flop, I probably go into check/call mode.

[Sent]

[ QUOTE ]
I should have raised but was unsure of the 9 high card.


[/ QUOTE ]

You know the odds of flopping a flush let alone flopping a flush and having someone flop a better one??

-Sent

[k000k]

In hand one your flush is not the nut flush. The A and K are out there, 2 single cards beat you, and they're cards that will get played a lot. You're in decent shape but dont overplay it. The 4th diamond sure slowed everyone down, it looks like there's diamonds out there, but not great ones.. I'd call the river.

In hand 2 ya, you got screwed... The pot's not that big, there's 4 higher spades out there. Almost everyone folded the flop meaning they didn't have spades, so there's a lot more spades concentrated in the cards that are left. The 4th spade didn't slow down your opponent, I think you're beat. A flush is probable, but you have to worry about the boats too, you are not in good shape here.. I'd probably call it expecting to lose. Whether that's correct or not, I'm not sure.

[Greg J]

Hey janeg welcome to the boards!!

Overall comment: You have to be much more aggressive. I mean MUCH more aggressive.

Hand one: Raise the flop. Raise the turn. Raise the river. You dojn't have the nut flush, but you still have a strong one. Raise and just call down is reraised.

Hand two: Here is the thing, and I want you to think about this for a minute: if you play this hand preflop (and with 4 callers you should!), if you don't bet, raise, or cap a flopped flush, why play the hand? By not raising you give some joker with, e.g., the J/images/graemlins/spade.gif better odds to get a higher flush. That didnt happen this hand, but the proper play is still to raise here.

[janeg]

[ QUOTE ]
If you just started playing yesterday then you can't draw any meaningful stats out of poker tracker. The sample size is way too small to determine what type of player you are yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry ... played my first on-line real money game yesterday. I've been playing on PSO and practicing with Wilson Software since June...from analyzing that play (still less than 10K hands) I know I'm weak; the PokerTracker stats made it even more obvious /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 1:
Raise on the flop. You likely have the best hand and the pot is so big that by not raising you are giving anyone with just an A or a K the correct odds to see the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, figured I did that wrong.

[ QUOTE ]

After the flop I think you played the hand fine. Don't back off just because the 3rd card of a flush comes out unless people give you reason to. After they bet you had reason to slow down and it looks like the button hit his flush, but you still have a good draw to a flush of your own and the pot is huge.


[/ QUOTE ]

So calling here was not a massive error. That's good to know.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:
Again you have to raise this flop. You have a great hand. Stop looking for monsters under the bed. Players are likely to call 2 cold here on the flop (although it seems they wouldn't have on this hand). Get your money in while you likely have the best hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...like the 'monster' under the bed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for your input.

Jane

[janeg]

Thanks everyone, for the great feedback. Just to let you know, I ended up winning the 1st hand...UTG+2 had 2 pair (9,7) and the Button did have a baby flush (5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif)

The 2nd hand I lost, MP2 had J/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif ... doubt he would have folded to a raise as he had an open ended draw to the nut straight along with the flush darw; however, based on the advice, I probably should have still raised the flop.

Thanks again for the great advice.

gla
Jane