I`m losing sleep over this hand ...

[Zim]

.25/.50 NL table $50 buy in.

Hero (late position) limps in with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Flop hits with 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif

It gets checked (2 people) , so I make a half bet wager.

two fold, villain calls (on the button).

Turn: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I make a pot sized bet (around $5), the villain goes all-in ($50.00).

I fold.

Should I have called?

Villain appeared to play pretty tight, and listening to his dialogue, apparently has done well in some tournies...and knew enough to lament about being sucked out by players chasing their two outers.

Still, aside from my foolish bet on the flop (call it a semi-bluff)...would you guys have folded in this scenario?

Thanks everyone.

Best,
Z.

[craiga_uk]

Tricky.
I'm still learning myself, but I think I would have probably bet larger on the turn... but as to folding to the all-in - well that's a toughie.
I'm wondering what he had. You'd think it was possibly AQ, but then I would have thought he'd have been playing it up more on the flop. Same with AA.
Maybe he hit 3Q's too, in which case you're not in the worst position kicker wise.

Still I think I would have folded too - but I'm a bit too easily intimidated. Better to keep some of your cash and play another hand than blow it on a dubious all-in.

[GimmeDaWatch]

Its a pretty close call. Against alot of the super-loose real aggressive types on Party I would make this call alot of the time as Im bound to have them outkicked if they do have a Q (and they wont a decent amount of the time). Against a tighter solid player I fold this hand. Im not sure what the other poster was talking about betting more. A pot sized bet is pretty big here on the turn, and if Im villain Im thinking there's a good chance you have a Q. The huge overbet could well be his reading you for a Q and thinking you might not be able to get away from this hand if he's holding a monster like a set or AQ. The only regularly played hand you could be ahead of here is QT or maybe Q9 if its suited, but I dont think those hands are likely to move in on you here. If he isnt wild or hasnt shown himself to be tricky, I say good fold.

[Zim]

I tried to get him to fess up, but he was being uncooperative ...

"Pay to see"

I`m leaning towards a bluff at this point, possibly a QT, but it doesn`t really matter ... does it? I ended up doubling my stack, and it re-affirmed that folding questionable all-ins really isn`t going to affect your long term win rate, is it?

Thanks guys, for the feedback.

Best,
Zim

[Ghazban]

You said he'd been playing pretty tight. If that's indeed the case, there are very few hands here that you're ahead of (maybe QTs, Q9s as a less likely other possibility). Then again, tight players don't generally make massive overbet raises on the turn, either, so maybe he wasn't as tight as you made him out to be? In any case, there's not much in the pot so calling would be risky regardless. I definitely wouldn't ask him what he had afterwards as that's just asking to be setup when he holds a monster later.

[DOMIT]

I agree with Ghazban.

That said, don't lose any more sleep. Be happy with doubling your stack (perhaps I'm conservative, but I'm always happy when I double mine). You may never know if you were ahead that hand, but there are going to be plenty of those that you'll have to fold in the future. Sleep well and move onto the next hand /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Zim]

On asking him after ... yes, thats probably poor form.

Actually, I`m considering just playing with the chat box off from now on. I`ve looked back at all the conversations I`ve had, and very few have contributed to my happiness or increased my financial well being.

And it seems that if you loosen up a little, people are pretty touchy.

Even at the $50 NL tables.

Go figure.

Thanks guys,
Z.

[cornell2005]

dont lose sleep over it. i would call though. with what hands that beat you would he do that with? with what hands that you beat might he do it with? if hes just an average/poor player, he would be more likely to do it with a hand you beat. players love to pull huge bluffs on that board. there wernt any draws to speak of except the flush that came on the turn. in that game, he could (not correctly of course, but could) be doing this with any 2 cards, plus any queen). you only lose to 2 of the queens and a set of 5s. seems like good odds to me. it all depends on how bad you think he is (he would have to be very very very bad to do this with a hand you beat, and only bad to do this with a hand you beat). since its a question of reads, dont fret it.

[GimmeDaWatch]

"he would have to be very very very bad to do this with a hand you beat, and only bad to do this with a hand you beat)."

I assume the first part is supposed to be "a hand thats beats you"? If he has a huge hand that beats Hero and he puts Hero on a Q, this seems like a pretty good play to me.

[cornell2005]

[ QUOTE ]
"he would have to be very very very bad to do this with a hand you beat, and only bad to do this with a hand you beat)."

I assume the first part is supposed to be "a hand thats beats you"? If he has a huge hand that beats Hero and he puts Hero on a Q, this seems like a pretty good play to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i meant a hand that beats you. but i entirely disagree with saying that its ever a good play with QA or QK. the villian would have to put the hero on a range of hands, he cant put him on a Q definetivly by any means. if he could then it doesnt matter what path he chooses. (to raise all in here or on the turn) but since he has to put hero on a range of hands its never correct for villian to push all in here with a hand that beats hero's.