$200 SnG KK hand

[Ian J]

I haven't got a read on this opponent because this thing just started and I play them rarely, so......

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

Hero (t1015)
Button (t1090)
SB (t975)
BB (t970)
UTG (t2210)
UTG+1 (t1115)
MP1 (t995)
MP2 (t1630)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t60</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t215</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t370</font>, Hero calls t155.

Flop: (t785) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets t250</font>, Hero ????

[ChrisV]

Hero should have moved in preflop, and should move in again now.

In a tournament the size and length of an SNG, it just isn't feasible to try to dodge aces. If you have kings you should always assume you have the best hand preflop. People overplay jacks and AK like anything and should be punished.

[citanul]

The action preflop smells funny and often winds up being aces in my experience. However, heads up, if you get all your money in preflop with KK, you should almost never be upset with yourself. If he has aces, well, you lose 3/4 of the time or so. But in general, you win most of the time with kings.

Given that you didn't move in preflop, and that you have what, 600 left, hero should push over the bet, definitely. I don't think there's going to be much debate here.

citanul

[durron597]

You have to decide preflop if he has aces. When he reraises you, make your decision right then, because you won't get any more information later in the hand to that effect.

Whatever your decision, act on it accordingly. You can just call if you're willing to attempt to trap on the flop, or you can move in preflop (which is what I would probably do).

Given that Hero called preflop, that means Hero feels that UTG's range of hands includes more than Aces, so unless that small flop bet changes your mind, push.

[Ian J]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to decide preflop if he has aces.


[/ QUOTE ]

I did.

[ QUOTE ]

Given that Hero called preflop, that means Hero feels that UTG's range of hands includes more than Aces

[/ QUOTE ]

How so? I disagree with this statement.

[Tosh]

You made the decision to play for set value and have missed. Now you fold.

[adanthar]

I would scroll back through the hand history and find the hand he doubled up on, then make my dec...oh, [censored] it, just push.

[Ian J]

[ QUOTE ]
I would scroll back through the hand history and find the hand he doubled up on, then make my dec...oh, [censored] it, just push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually REALLY like this idea, and am quite disappointed that I didn't think of it in that very moment.

[durron597]

Ok, given your reply to my post, I change my post to say "Tosh is right. Go read Tosh's post."

[whiskeytown]

because if you thought it was only AA, you would have folded...

because you called, you're presuming that you may still have teh best hand, hence the call -

you didn't call trying to get a 2 outer, did you?

RB

[stripsqueez]

i folded KK pre-flop the other day but folding this would be bizarre - i would of pushed to the flop reraise and i would push now and i wouldnt be thinking about it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[ron dogg]

What i've noticed in my limited experience in higher level sit and go's is that people overplay medium pockets all the time. No way I don't get my money in here preflop. Most players would play QQ and JJ and most likely TT like that. If he has the Aces, rap the virtual table and get on with the next one.

Ron-

[Ian J]

Well, this hand just smelled really funny to me, and I think it's closer than most of you seem to think. The guy min-raises UTG, then min re-raises a re-raise. Then, on the flop, he bets 250 into a pot of 750 or so. Everything smelled like Aces to me, so I folded. As for the flop call, after I make it 215 and he proceeds to min re-raise, folding there would be horrendous. I decided that he had Aces right then, and tried to flop a set and bust him. That didn't happen, hence the fold.

It was very close, and I rarely have second thoughts about getting my money in w/ KK, but this time was different for some reason. As it may be, I went on to finish 2nd and am still pretty comfortable with the laydown.

[Matt Finkelstein]

In this game, you have to go with your gut more than anything. It does take restraint to get away from the boys. It is a relatively high stakes game, and those min rr are very fishy. I might do something like that to set the bait. Even if there is only a 1/3 chance that he is not bluffing, if you are confident that you have a good chance to finish ITM, IMO it is a good laydown.

[ChrisV]

The problem is, I have had this same "something fishy" feeling any number of times before, and I agree this one looks fishy. But when I look them up, usually they don't actually have the aces. To put it another way, one reason the situation smells fishy might be aces. But there are about 300 other, less likely, reasons, which when added together make a much higher probability than the aces.

[BlackAces]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this hand just smelled really funny to me, and I think it's closer than most of you seem to think. The guy min-raises UTG, then min re-raises a re-raise. Then, on the flop, he bets 250 into a pot of 750 or so. Everything smelled like Aces to me, so I folded. As for the flop call, after I make it 215 and he proceeds to min re-raise, folding there would be horrendous. I decided that he had Aces right then, and tried to flop a set and bust him. That didn't happen, hence the fold.


[/ QUOTE ]
Good players might play that way. I've seen bad players minraise (and even minreraise) with a wide variety of hands.

Add me to the push list.

[poboy]

hmmm.. let's see your options are fold,call, or push. PUSH, and it's not close. You can't be afraid of monsters under the bed, sure he could have AA but how likely is that? If he has AA, wouldn't checking that flop make more sense. Very weak laydown IMO.

[Daliman]

I dont like the laydown eiter. By a cagey player, AA from UTG is usually played at the early levels, In order:

1. Limp/Reraise
2. 3-4xBB/Reraise
3. 3-4xBB/Call
4. 2xBB/Pot raise
5. 2xBB/Miniraise

So, In my view, Aces if played that way, was the 5th most likely way to play them. I hate miniraises too, but this guy JUST as easily could have had 77-QQ or AK. I agree that your decision was made preflop. If you thought he had aces, what exactly needed to flop for you to play? A king abvoiusly, but what is the flop came AK3?

[TransientR]

I agree. It is a tiny chance he has the aces. Most likely he has a weaker hand. Of course, he may have another strong hand, but if you get knocked out with KK...who would criticize?

But anyway, you came in second, so maybe your gut feel served you well.

Frank