Chicago Tribune story on kids and poker

[Roy Hobbs]

Kids and Poker (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409230289sep23,1,4537817.story?coll=chi-news-hed)

RH

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Kids and Poker (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0409230289sep23,1,4537817.story?coll=chi-news-hed)

RH

[/ QUOTE ]

could you post the story instead of just teasing us.

[MaxPower]

This is very bizarre. I can't believe something I got into doing 6 years ago is all of sudden the rage among teenagers.


[ QUOTE ]
Deal 'em: Kids get drawn in by poker
Advertisement

By Lisa Black
Tribune staff reporter

September 23, 2004

Jaws clenched, none of these steely-eyed poker players are ready to fold, but it's 7:55 a.m. and a good bet they'll be late for their first class at Stevenson High School if they don't get moving.

"Just one more hand! Just one more hand!" a few of them shout, hoping to win back their losses.

Huddled around a table in the commons area at the Lincolnshire school, the five sophomores don't toss money into the pot. That would be gambling, which is prohibited. Instead, they memorize IOUs--for later.

Fueled by the glamour of televised tournaments with celebrity players, $5 million pay-outs and online casinos, poker is the rage among teenagers, who are organizing their own games, ponying up allowance and baby-sitting earnings.

Across the Chicago area over this past year, the popularity of the card game has crossed all clique lines--from the jocks and band members to the nerds. One variation, Texas Hold 'em, is especially hot. Boys and girls alike are getting into the action.

During the summer, game shop managers saw swarms of teens hunting for poker paraphernalia. Monogrammed poker chips were snapped up as graduation presents or Hanukkah gifts.

Some parents admit having mixed feelings about the gambling aspect, which is, after all, illegal. But many let the kids hold tournaments in their basements and supply the munchies because they view it as a safe social activity that seems tame compared with other teen vices.

Two distinct types of school-age poker players exist and both attend New Trier High School in Winnetka, said Alan Cosby, a 17-year-old senior from Glenview.

"There are the ones who want to make money and the ones like me who buy in for like $10 and just to want to have fun," he said. "There are other kids who can't stop, but I don't play with them. Some kids have been up to hundreds of dollars in debt."

One Glenview teen said he has friends who have lied about their age to play online poker. An 8th grader tried to use an older brother's account to deposit $800 in winnings, but the online poker administrator caught on and accused him of "laundering money," said the teen who asked not to be named. Internet gambling is illegal in Illinois, said Melissa Merz, a spokeswoman for Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan.

Not quite card sharks, the players become more savvy over time.

"Anybody can learn to play cards," said David Torres, 18, a College of Lake County student from Mundelein. "Girls are really good at it because they can hide their emotions. A lot of guys will teach their girlfriend how to play poker. They'll go to a party and everyone will think, oh, she's a girl, she can't play poker."

And then, of course, they rake it in, said Torres, who has played for three years.

Liza Dickinson, 16, a junior at Mundelein High School, agrees. She plays every few days with a group of friends.

"With a bunch of guys, I always win," she said matter-of-factly. "Guys are bad at lying."

Although schools don't allow gambling--and many ban card-playing of any form--some permit students to play as long as no money is exchanged.

"Up until a few years ago, the school district did not allow the students to play cards," said Stevenson High School Principal Doug Domeracki.

"Some students asked if they could play cards to pass the time. It went to committee and the decision was, why not? Let's let the kids play cards but make sure they know gambling is not allowed."

By comparison, Elgin High School cracked down this year against all forms of game-playing, including cards and chess, Principal David Smiley said.

"We want kids working on curricular matters," said Smiley, who enforces quiet study halls. "We don't have game-playing. We're on the [state] early warning list because of test scores, so we really wanted to focus on why we're here."

In Glenview, Springman Middle School added a gambling policy to its student handbook last year after some 8th graders were caught placing $2 to $10 bets on sporting events.

The case against poker isn't always clear cut. Sure, betting is a no-no. But the game acts as a great equalizer, drawing kids from various social sets and age groups, from pre-teens on up. Played on buses and in cafeterias and gyms, it remains a good way to pass the time and bond with friends.

Last spring, debate team members from Glenbrook North High School played poker during breaks at a national tournament in Salt Lake City, where they won the top prize.

"It's entertaining and it's cheaper than a movie," said Zach Rudin, 18, of Wilmette, a New Trier graduate who plays with his younger brother and their friends. "Movies are $10, and they're not always good. With poker, we can buy in for $5 and you'll usually get an hour or two or three of good entertainment. I justify it that way when I lose."

Chad Shoman, 18, thought the game was "pretty stupid" until he realized his buddies were all playing and figured he'd better grab a deck of cards if he wanted to keep their company. Admitting he's hooked, he plays every Sunday evening at a friend's house in Vernon Hills.

"We talk about politics, about sports, about poker and who won on ESPN this week. Music. Everything," said Shoman, who attends the College of Lake County in Grayslake.

At Stevenson High School, hands both hot and cold get dealt before school starts or during lunch periods.

"We're not allowed to have music. We're not allowed to have electronics, so it's like, what can we do?" said C.J. McFate, 15, who occasionally joins the regulars.

Playing for money, though? That's serious stuff and makes parents nervous, according to McFate, who said he mostly plays for pennies or nothing at all.

His friend, Mark Hamilton, 15, another Stevenson student who lives in Buffalo Grove, said he pitches in no more than $1.50.

"It's only with our friends," said Hamilton, who thinks some kids are trying to start a poker club at school.

Colette Lueck wasn't bothered when her 14-year-old son and his buddies anted up pretzels and pizza during their weekly poker games. But with the teens now tossing $10 each into the pot, Lueck said she's conflicted.

"We've had conversations about whether this is a passing fad or if it's an entryway into an addiction the way you'd be cautious about kids experimenting with alcohol," said Lueck, 55, of Oak Park.Dr. Bennett Leventhal, professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at the University of Chicago Hospitals, said parents should supervise poker games.

"What's the difference between playing poker or Uno or bridge?" Leventhal said. "The question is the wagering. I wouldn't see the games as inherently bad. It's how they're used and who the kids are who are playing it. ... In general I think it's inappropriate for kids to wager."

Parents should talk to their children about what happens if they win and lose, and how to walk away from the table, Leventhal said.

Alan Cosby isn't worried and said he knows when to quit. Playing poker has become so mainstream and such an effective ice-breaker that he said it has helped him meet new people at school.

"It's not just like the jock kids are playing poker," Cosby said. "Every kind of kid likes poker. It really does cross boundaries."

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

[/ QUOTE ]

[exist]

freaking retards outlawing CHESS. freakin tards.

[Ponks]

Good article, but I'm surprised they didnt find any big online players or anything. Most of this seems like less then $10. This is also right around where I live, my mom even teaches at one of these schools. Interesting stuff.

Ponks

[BottlesOf]

Thought you were Nate...

[Lawrence Ng]

There is no doubt in my mind, that if I were to run a high school curriculum that poker would be in the curriculum. Knowledge is key to control and if these kids have the mindset to want to play cards, then they should be properly educated on the aspects of it.

Poker symbolizes a lot of other things other than gambling. Pyschology, mathematics, Economics, financial management so to name a few.

The problem with most school curriculum's is that they teach based on a system that is falisfied and are not teaching real life skills. So most kids come out and are clueless winding up filing resumes to McD's.

Poker is a real life skill that applicable to many facets. And since high school kids have taken such keen interest, you can bet they'll be doing their homework and learning.

[bdk3clash]

Funny--a lot of the interviewees are from the area I grew up in (I'm from Glenview--think of the high schools from the John Hughes movies.)

There are probably a lot of bored kids out there for whom poker is a great outlet. Stuff like this makes me not worry that good games will dry up any time soon.

[wmpoker]

Very interesting article...I am going to have to agree and disagree with Mr. Ng over there. I think poker does represent a lot of things that are valuable in life, and you said it when you said our kids should learn about the values you talked about, but I don't necessarily think it should be through poker immediately. Poker is an addicting game and it does lead to other forms of addiction. I wouldn't want my kids playing poker at school just because that's not what school is meant for. I love poker and it has brought a lot of entertainment to me in the many years I have played the game. If my kids were that age I would encourage them to play on the weekends, but never to take it into the schoolyard. Thats just my two cents...

[snowlarbear]

yeah, i'd refrain from actually bringing it into a school. there's an age minimum for a reason.

teaching kids to play poker is just asking for a rounders type situation where they think they are the best then blow their life savings (of allowances or what not).

[LikesToLose]

I think I would rather have a 16 year old kid hit rock bottom and be in debt way over his head (a couple of $100 according to the article) than a 25 year old with a $30K job for a couple $10,000.

I don't think that a 25 year old is any less likely to get in over head or more mature if he has not be exposed to the downside of risks. There have been a lot of people who have posted about huge losses or quiting their jobs to play professionally with a $10,000 bankroll and no living expenses saved up.

I do think gambling and the lure of easy money needs a learning process. An adult can teach his kids.

Just a bit more rant. Parents always seem to act like they are raising children. Not true. You are raising adults that are currently children. It is your job to educate them in all aspects of being an adult.

Just my .02

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would rather have a 16 year old kid hit rock bottom and be in debt way over his head (a couple of $100 according to the article) than a 25 year old with a $30K job for a couple $10,000.

I don't think that a 25 year old is any less likely to get in over head or more mature if he has not be exposed to the downside of risks. There have been a lot of people who have posted about huge losses or quiting their jobs to play professionally with a $10,000 bankroll and no living expenses saved up.

I do think gambling and the lure of easy money needs a learning process. An adult can teach his kids.

Just a bit more rant. Parents always seem to act like they are raising children. Not true. You are raising adults that are currently children. It is your job to educate them in all aspects of being an adult.

Just my .02

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

[Blarg]

Mine too.

A kid busting out and losing his allowance learns an excellent lesson and very very cheaply. An adult who ruins his life might not be able to come back again. Seriously. Suicide, ruined marriages, drug addiction...truly ruinous things. A kid who loses his allowance or a couple of hundred bucks or so from his savings account might get, oh...laughed at by his peers and yelled at and grounded by his parents...maybe. Maybe. Either way, it's a great lesson at a dirt cheap price, and maybe it will never come to that either.

People also say children are more vulnerable to temptation, but I don't believe they're more vulnerable to the kind of temptation poker is about. Adults grow up in a society that constantly flaunts material wealth in the most in-your-face way possible, but very few adults live anywhere near the way America portrays itself, and most live, as the saying goes, lives of quiet desperation. The pull of what poker can do for you is in that context can be enormous, especially considering the work most adults have to do just to maintain a non-rotten standard of living and a little hope in their lives, and maybe in the lives of their children. I think the draw to the impossible dream is much stronger to the adult because there's so much more at stake.

Remember the kid here who posted he was winning and was going to buy an iPod? That's what a kid's motivation is...some cool stuff, some fun maybe. If he doesn't get it, oh well...he didn't have it before either, so big deal. And he doesn't work for a living or need a job. Win or lose, in the kid's perspective, who cares? Win or lose can be life and death to an adult, not getting grounded or laughed at by his snot-nosed friends. I'm much more worried for adults than kids.

And I think anything that trains kids to focus their concentration, have discipline and honest self-evaluation, and try to achieve long-term goals(and winning poker is very much a long-term proposition) is a fantastic training ground for adult life. I'd be proud if my kid took on a tough project that made him really have to think and did well in it, and poker is tougher than many.

And playing it in the schoolyard is, well, fun. Nickels and dimes, quarters, whatever. Poker is very social and a lot of fun. Plus it's hard to do well drunk or stoned, so it can keep them out of trouble. Beats driving around too fast, getting in fights, shoplifting, watching t.v. and playin Nintendo, and so many other things kids do. Heck, it even gets them out of the house and socializing with lots of people. I think poker is ideal for kids.

[dr. klopek]

whatever happened to just drinking until 1st period?