Baseball strategy question

[Cubswin]

This might be a little silly but it think it makes sense. With Barry Bonds getting intentionally walked as much as he has why doesnt her try this.... wait to the count gets to 3-0 and then swing at the next two pitches when the pitcher tries to throw the 4th intentional ball. I see three benefits to this strategy. First, you force the pitcher to throw two more tosses then he has to. On hot days these throws will add up if Bonds is walked 3+ times. Second, you never know if the pitcher might throw a wild pitch and the runner could advance. Finally, it might take the pitcher out of his rhythm. Ive seen many a pitcher lose focus after tossing 4 intentional balls... tossing 6 intentional balls might leave the pitcher even more prone to lose his rhythm. Is this strategy just silly? Would Bonds just open the door to being thrown at his next AB if he did this?

[Abednego]

I think think this is genius!

[The Dude]

I don't know that I'd swing twice, but I've often wondered why he never swings once. I don't know if it's an uspoken etiquette issue, though. Like slowrolling is to us.

[andyfox]

"Would Bonds just open the door to being thrown at his next AB if he did this?"

No, he'd be thrown at on the very next ball four pitch.

[nothumb]

I would only throw at Barry Bonds if I was that enormous guy on the Cubs who throws like a hundred.

Seriously, he might be 40, but he could smoke you. Plus, one of your guys will get hit in the nuts.

NT

[andyfox]

If he deliberately swung at intentional ball four? Larry Bowa, to name one manager, would come out and take the mound himself and bean him.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I think it may be an unspoken rule that you don't swing at the pitch. Although I thought a long time ago some player reached out hit a pitch when he was being intentionaly walked.

[Sundevils21]

I think it makes perfect sense. If they bean him, then he'd stop. I don't think pitchers would feel SOOO disrespected that they would intentionally hit him though.

[nothumb]

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Although I thought a long time ago some player reached out hit a pitch when he was being intentionaly walked.

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I saw Cal Ripken Jr do this once. I think there was a man on 2nd with nobody out or something.

NT

[andyfox]

I think I remember the opposite: I think it was the A's in the World Series against Johnny Bench, with the count 3-2, they made like they were going to walk him, and then struck him out.

Anybody old enough to remember this?

[Justin A]

It's not an etiquette issue if you're swinging at ball four and actually trying to hit it. If you're swinging just to make the pitcher work harder, expect to get one of your teammates hit by a pitch. I doubt they would actually hit Bonds.

Even on a hot day, throwing extra intentional walk pitches will not tire a pitcher. It's a very light throw and actually can be good for a pitcher to loosen up a bit.

Sure some pitchers may lose focus after an IBB, but no pitcher in the majors will lose focus after Bonds pulls a stunt like that.

Don't count on a wild pitch. Throwing an IBB is incredibly easy for these guys.

Justin A

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
"Would Bonds just open the door to being thrown at his next AB if he did this?"

No, he'd be thrown at on the very next ball four pitch.

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If the pitcher wanted to toss at him afterwards and get ejected, I think Giants fans could handle someone getting beaned if it was happening during the playoffs.

I really like this idea.

[Senor Choppy]

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Don't count on a wild pitch. Throwing an IBB is incredibly easy for these guys.

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It's actually deceptively difficult for some. I've seen quite a few wild pitches thrown by a pitcher trying to aim the ball too much in these spots.

[Cubswin]

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No, he'd be thrown at on the very next ball four pitch.


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If you try to throw at someone doesnt it increase the chances of a wild pitch?

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
I would only throw at Barry Bonds if I was that enormous guy on the Cubs who throws like a hundred.

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No one messes with Kyle Farnsworth /images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/MLB/56419_6814883b.JPG

[sfer]

I saw Keith Hernandez flail at a pitch-out during a hit and run years ago. He missed.

[namknils]

[ QUOTE ]
I would only throw at Barry Bonds if I was that enormous guy on the Cubs who throws like a hundred.


[/ QUOTE ]

We've got a few enormous guys that throw a hundred. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Oski]

1. This topic was kicked around on L.A. sports radio about a month back. The consensus leaned towards the opinion that this would not accomplish much of anything. Why?

a. An intentional ball is not really a pitch. Throwing over to first to hold the runner requires more exertion and concentration by comparison. Having the pitcher throw two more intentional balls is not really going to jack up the pitch count in a useful way.

One way to verify this is to see how managers implement intentional balls into the pitch count. (A lot of pitchers, usually young or ones coming off injury are on a "strict" pitch count).

b. Similarly, a "beanball" only is effective in the context of a normal AB. The danger of the beanball is that it is unexpected. Well, since BB is gettting walked, he is not concentrating on hitting ... he would easily dodge the ball if he needed to.

Ok, so they won't throw at Bonds, but they will throw at another player. Think of the absurdity. Bonds gets intentionally walked about once a game - down the line a batter gets beaned in retaliation ... every game.

MLB would put a stop to that really quick. The may just allow the intentional walk without the pitches, or they will start each game with a warning to both sides, meaning the first beanball is an automatic ejection (unfortunately, this rule is really dumb ... it gives one team with malice a free shot, THEN both teams go on the warning). However, if only the opposing team was warned, this would be a (pun intended) GIANT advantage.

[ACPlayer]

Is this strategy just silly? Would Bonds just open the door to being thrown at his next AB if he did this?

He would have to use Game Theory to determine the optimal percent of times he should be doing this.

[M2d]

even for bonds.

[M2d]

last night, Krukow (I think) was speculating that the Giants pitchers should start every game by going after the opposing team's leadoff hitter. Then, both teams automatically start off with a warning and the other side can't go after bonds.

[ericd]

Sad to say I'm old enough.

As I recall, though the catcher (Gene Tenace?) was standing for an intentional walk the 5th pitch was close for ball 3 (I don't recall how the first 2 strikes occurred). Dick Williams bolted out of the dugout apparently chewing out the pitcher for making the pitch too close. Williams returns to the dugout in a huff. Play resumes. Tenace (?) signals for an intentional ball. As the pitcher delivers, Tenace gets behind the plate to catch a called 3rd strike.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
last night, Krukow (I think) was speculating that the Giants pitchers should start every game by going after the opposing team's leadoff hitter. Then, both teams automatically start off with a warning and the other side can't go after bonds.

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I'm sure. But, if this was done, MLB would put an end to it, pronto.

This would be considered a total bastardization of the rules ... sure, it technically follows the letter of the rules, but it runs afoul of the spirit.

[M2d]

they were just throwing out ideas when bonds got thrown at a couple of times. I don't think they were serious.

[andyfox]

Throw it 60 mph. Bonds would just stand there and let it hit him.

[sam h]

Should he ever swing at the first intentional ball to try to induce the other manager into pitching to him?

[andyfox]

Someone should check to see what he does when the count goes 0-1.

[sam h]

There was an article on this recently in Baseball Prospectus. It's pretty sick...

Bonds this year when count gets to 0-1: .372/.471/.791
Bonds this year when count gets to 0-2: .341/.386/.707

NL average when count gets to 0-1: .234/.269/.365
NL average when count gets to 0-2: .194/.235/.303

There are a lot of hypotheticals, but you could argue that Bonds could spot every pitcher two strikes and still be the best hitter in the majors. Scary.

[Oski]

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Throw it 60 mph. Bonds would just stand there and let it hit him.

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You have to attempt to avoid the pitch. Bonds won't get the base right there.

[offTopic]

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Throw it 60 mph. Bonds would just stand there and let it hit him.

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You have to attempt to avoid the pitch. Bonds won't get the base right there.

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This is one of the least-enforced rules in all of baseball, right up there with the catcher staying in ther catcher's box. If he turns his back and lets the ball hit him, that's enough. If he drops his elbow so the ball bounces off the armor, that's enough, too.