Raising 79s in CO+1

[pokerkai]

Hero is in CO+1 holding 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
3/6 party game, very passive

PREFLOP: UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero RAISES, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, Rest call.

FLOP: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Checked to Hero, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to Hero, Hero CHECKS.

River: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG BETS, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero RAISES....

[Lost Wages]

I think that your preflop raise is poor, 97s just doesn't hit the flop often enough.

Lost Wages

[Bob T.]

3/6 party game, very passive


In passive games, I tend to try and limp in and then make value on later streets if I like my hand. In an aggressive game, I like the raise more, because they likely don't have a lot, and you get some value, because you might win on the flop.

I think this raise just kills your implied odds, in a situation where you know that you are behind.

[J.R.]

Other reasons for raising suited connectors in this spot have to do with tying people into the pot (which is gonna happen as your opponents are loose) and possibly getting a free card on the flop (likely to happen anyway as they are passive). Also note that a suited one gap hand like 97s is a bit less of a hand than JTs, T9s, QJs, KJs, KQs, etc., so the pot equity justifications for your preflop raise are less compelling than with the the suited broadway connectors.

[pokerkai]

In an aggressive game, I like the raise more, because they likely don't have a lot

See...i feel the exact opposite. Because the game was passive, I felt a raise was warranted to buy the button, and very likely get a free card. Whereas in an agressive game, checking to the raiser wont happen.

Also I felt that 79s would win more then its fair share being in last position and with the added value of the free card, I felt it might be the right move.

Am i way off? Is it really that bad a rasie? Any comments on the later streets?

[J.R.]

I wouldn't call the raise per say bad, but I think limping is more profitable in the long run.

Re postflop: you raised to get a possible free card on the flop, flopped second pair and a gutshot, and then didn't check? Not to say the flop bet is horrible but there seems to be a disconnect between your preflop and flop reasoning, as your preflop raise bloated the pot so as to prevent your flop bet from providing any protection for your hand against overcrads should your pair of sevens be best, and your preflop raise was partly to allow you to take a free card on the flop with a marginal hand, which is what you flopped. The turn and river are standard.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
CO calls, Hero RAISES, Button folds,

[/ QUOTE ]

Um - CO+1 - isn't that the button??? or have I been grossly misinformed over the course of the year.

I thought you were just being clever with your CO+1, until I saw the action in print.

Baffled
Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[pokerkai]

I bet the flop partially because I felt my 7 might be good, and to take a free turn.

Its not much of a disconnect. I felt I flopped well enough to warrant a flop bet and "save" my free card for the turn, because this was a hand I felt I might want to showdown unimproved depending on the turn and river.

[PokerInBrooklyn]

I don't think the raise here is as bad as everyone is making it out to be. It accomplished exactly what you wanted, to buy the button and the option for a free card on the flop. You evaluated the game as passive (an optimal situation for the free card play), and capitalized on your assumptions.

I think I would bet the turn. It is quite possible you have the best hand. A bet could knock out possible overcards from drawing out.

[Bob T.]

Ok, here is my take on it.

Let's say you raise in a passive game, you flop something horrible like AK5. Your free card on the flop doesn't do you any good.

Or, you flop J85, if it is checked to you, and you bet, you might get an EP raiser who would kill make it tough for callers to com in, and who will also likely continue to bet until you make your hand and raise.

Or you could limp in a passive game. You get the AK5 flop, and get out for 1 bet.

If you get the J85 flop, you get an EP bettor, and now you can raise for value and take a free card on the turn if you wish. I think getting the free card on the turn, when you actually want it, is worth a lot more than the free card on the flop when it may or may not do you any good.

On the other hand, if you raise in an aggressive game, and you get the AK5 flop, you probably have a real chance to win the pot on the flop, because noone else had a hand worth raising, and your percieved 'big ace' might be the best hand.

I don't think raising 97s in LP in a multiway pot is a terrible mistake, but I do think that limping is better.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Bob T.]

In 21st century poker, not only are there two blinds, but there are two cutoffs as well /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey pokerai,

Without being at the table with you and getting a feel for the players and texture, it's hard to say what I'd raise with here. Having said that, here's what I'd raise with here:

AA-22
AKo-AQo
AKs-98s
AQs-QTs
AJs-KTs

That's it unless table conditions or my relative position are exceptionally weird.

GoT

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i like raising suited connectors... but 97s isn't a connector, it's a gapper.

that said, i'd raise down to 76s

[Lost Wages]

Why would you raise small pairs? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Loc: Go 'Stros!!!

Are you from Houston?

Lost Wages

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you raise small pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

why wouldn't you?

[Lost Wages]

HEPFAP says only raise small pairs after limpers if you are in a game where it would tie players to the pot, otherwise it is never correct.

Lost Wages

[Seether]

Um....if this isnt a situation where the raise would tie people to the pot, where is a situation where it would? This is a great spot to raise with pocket pairs for set value. If you hit your set many people will be chasing overs/two pair draws because they are getting correct pot odds, however they would be drawing near dead in many situations when you hit your set.

[Lost Wages]

In low limit games you don't need to tie people to the pot, they will chase anyway. You can't raise 5 limpers for value with 22, you are 7.5:1 against making a set, boat or quads. You are just reducing your own implied odds.

Lost Wages

[BottlesOf]

If the players suck, they often chase any way. This is what LW is saying, and I tend to agree. For me it depends how many limpers there are and who they are. I don't often raise small pairs with 3/4 limpers.