K9s vs. K7 hand: Was Phil's laydown a good play or a weak-tight one?

[lastchance]

This is just from my lousy recollection, so if anyone can come up with the exact details, it'd make this much more interesting.

Dunno what happens preflop.

Flop comes K, 9, 6, all unsuited, I think.

Annie checks top two pair, Phil leads out with his TPNK. Annie raises, and Phil calls.

Turn is a J.

Annie pushes in. Phil folds. And of course, Phil shows his top pair, Annie shows the nine.

Now, what I find interesting about this hand is that Annie Duke check-raised Phil Hellmuth 4 times earlier, and ESPN didn't show it. Knowing this, do you lay it down the way Phil did? Do you lay it down on the flop? Is Phil making a good read on that hand, or is he being weak-tight?

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just from my lousy recollection, so if anyone can come up with the exact details, it'd make this much more interesting.

Dunno what happens preflop.

Flop comes K, 9, 6, all unsuited, I think.

Annie checks top two pair, Phil leads out with his TPNK. Annie raises, and Phil calls.

Turn is a J.

Annie pushes in. Phil folds. And of course, Phil shows his top pair, Annie shows the nine.

Now, what I find interesting about this hand is that Annie Duke check-raised Phil Hellmuth 4 times earlier, and ESPN didn't show it. Knowing this, do you lay it down the way Phil did? Do you lay it down on the flop? Is Phil making a good read on that hand, or is he being weak-tight?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst post ever, he obviously made a good read. Did you hear his chatter after the hand? He said, "I thought you had two pair, I guess I shouldn't have acted so quickly." He made a dead-on read and made the right play based on his read, end of story.

It's not weak-tight when you lay down a dominated hand.

[KanigawaCards7]

Results oriented thinking rules all so ironically, Phil made the right play based on results

[toots]

Yes, he made an excellent read.

Annie responded with an excellent play (showing the 9).

Two pros doing their jobs.

[lastchance]

Oh, I didn't explain myself fully. The key here is that Phil laid 4 check-raises to Annie before this hand. Annie's going to check-raise Phil 6 times in this tournament, I think, and Phil will lay it down 5 times. Annie bluffed him 4 out of those 5 times, and the one time he did call was after this hand, after Annie showing him the nine.

It suggests to me that this guy didn't have a read on Annie, because he made the wrong decision 5 out of 6 times, even though from this hand, he might have. Laying down the check-raise 5 times out of 6 HU really puts that seed in your mind that Phil is not willing to get his money in, where every SNGer knows you have to HU.

I don't know if Phil had the read down on this hand, he probably did because of his two pair comment, but, why did he fold to a check-raise 5 times? Did he have crap the 4 times before this one? Was he not able to make a read on Annie?

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, he made an excellent read.

Annie responded with an excellent play (showing the 9).

Two pros doing their jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree, 110%.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I didn't explain myself fully. The key here is that Phil laid 4 check-raises to Annie before this hand. Annie's going to check-raise Phil 6 times in this tournament, I think, and Phil will lay it down 5 times. Annie bluffed him 4 out of those 5 times, and the one time he did call was after this hand, after Annie showing him the nine.

It suggests to me that this guy didn't have a read on Annie, because he made the wrong decision 5 out of 6 times, even though from this hand, he might have. Laying down the check-raise 5 times out of 6 HU really puts that seed in your mind that Phil is not willing to get his money in, where every SNGer knows you have to HU.

I don't know if Phil had the read down on this hand, he probably did because of his two pair comment, but, why did he fold to a check-raise 5 times? Did he have crap the 4 times before this one? Was he not able to make a read on Annie?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since we didn't see Phil get check-raised any times previously, did you ever think that maybe this might be an exaggeration by Phil, he has been known to do that you know. I'm not saying he didn't get check-raised previously and lay down top pair, but there's also the possibility he was over-expressing the true number of previous check-raises.

[cowpie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if Phil had the read down on this hand, he probably did because of his two pair comment, but, why did he fold to a check-raise 5 times? Did he have crap the 4 times before this one? Was he not able to make a read on Annie?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he didn't have good enough hands. Kind of like when Gus Hansen checkraised Barry Greenstein 5 times in a row, and Barry folded 4 out of 5 times.

[MCS]

[ QUOTE ]
Since we didn't see Phil get check-raised any times previously, did you ever think that maybe this might be an exaggeration by Phil

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because on 2+2, Annie said she had checkraise-bluffed him four times in a row.

Sorry I don't remember what thread it's in. It's one of the threads in this forum; that's all I can remember.

[Beavis68]

IT is also quite possible that she was bluffing with the best hand.
It sounds like Phil was not being aggressive enough - but then again, it has been a year or so since he actually got heads-up with anyone
/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since we didn't see Phil get check-raised any times previously, did you ever think that maybe this might be an exaggeration by Phil

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because on 2+2, Annie said she had checkraise-bluffed him four times in a row.

Sorry I don't remember what thread it's in. It's one of the threads in this forum; that's all I can remember.

[/ QUOTE ]

Point me to the thread b/c I don't think she's posted in the last 24 hours, so it would be impossible for her to have said that.

[CrisBrown]

Hi lastchance,

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I didn't explain myself fully. The key here is that Phil laid 4 check-raises to Annie before this hand. Annie's going to check-raise Phil 6 times in this tournament, I think, and Phil will lay it down 5 times. Annie bluffed him 4 out of those 5 times, and the one time he did call was after this hand, after Annie showing him the nine.

It suggests to me that this guy didn't have a read on Annie, because he made the wrong decision 5 out of 6 times, even though from this hand, he might have.

[/ QUOTE ]

We didn't see the other four hands, so we've no idea what Phil raised with on those flops, or what Annie was holding when she made what she thought were "bluff and semi-bluff check-raises" (her words from one of her posts). It may well be that Phil bluffed at her with utter rags, and she bluffed back with what she thought were also rags or bare draws, but he just didn't have anything even remotely worth continuing the pot.

Now, if Annie had bluff check-raised him off of top pair (or even second or third pair) every time, I'd be truly stunned, and I'd agree that he was playing "weak-tight." However, I suspect those hands were standard, professional-level, heads-up plays. Phil bluffs with rags. Annie rebluffs with rags or at best a draw. Phil folds his rags. Next pot.

Now he catches top pair, but with a lousy kicker. Annie catches top two. She check-raises again. This time, he calls. She pushes at the turn, and he makes a good read and mucks a dead hand.

Cris