no idea what i am doing...

[tolbiny]

Online 1/2 game, lots of limping.

I get 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the sb, five limpers to me and icomplete big blind raps and 7 of us see a flop of
T /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
I check (mis?) checked around to the button who bets, i call as do three others.
turn
9 /images/graemlins/club.gif
cehcked to the button who bets... I?

[fluff]

Bet the flop for value, you have 8 outs for the OESD, plus a backdoor flush.

Check calling the turn is ok, although betting out is probably better.

[tolbiny]

I checked the flop hoping that a bet might come from my left allowing my to checkraise the field, and if it came from the right i probably wouldn't lose anything since it wasnt a very aggressive field, and it was unlikely to get raised by anyone (besides me).

[Victor]

"I checked the flop hoping that a bet might come from my left allowing my to checkraise the field, and if it came from the right i probably wouldn't lose anything since it wasnt a very aggressive field, and it was unlikely to get raised by anyone (besides me)."

I really like that line. It also eliminates the scenario when betting out that the player to your immediate left raises and thins the field.

[Victor]

Just call here. Button likely has a strong hand (a 10) to bet into this many people. No reason to raise to limit the field as the pot is not that big and you have a draw that you want to keep people in the pot for.

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
I checked the flop hoping that a bet might come from my left allowing my to checkraise the field... since it wasnt a very aggressive field...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't these two statements contradict each other? If it's a passive field, that's all the more reason to bet.

[tolbiny]

Don't these two statements contradict each other? If it's a passive field, that's all the more reason to bet.

Not at all, i play in plenty of games where a field this large will produce a flop bet >90% of the time, but will not end up with a raise unless i am the one to put it in.

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
... Button likely has a strong hand (a 10) to bet into this many people...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're giving him WAAYYYYYY too much credit too quickly. All he's shown so far is two completely unchallenged position bets.

[tolbiny]

I'm probably not knocking a J out, but knocking out a 6 (or another 9) to clean up my two pair outs could be good. Is it worth it to try this here?

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]

Not at all, i play in plenty of games where a field this large will produce a flop bet >90% of the time, but will not end up with a raise unless i am the one to put it in.

[/ QUOTE ]

But then again, as illustrated by this hand, you never know where it might come from. Perhaps with the right table read, going for the chkraise is the better play, but betting out is my default.

[nepenthe]

I go ahead and bet the flop. An OESD+backdoor flush is a good flop against a large field. If raised, I go into check/call then. Since there was no raise preflop, you can't tell where the bet is going to come from. Out of position, this is a tough hand to plan a judicious checkraise.

[tolbiny]

But then again, as illustrated by this hand, you never know where it might come from. Perhaps with the right table read, going for the chkraise is the better play, but betting out is my default


True i don't know where the bet is coming from... but it doesnt matter- if it comes from my right, then it is the same as if i bet out and no one raises (which is what i expect) and if it comes from my left and i get a couple of callers i c/r. I think now that checking the river is def the right play (for this type of table)

[tolbiny]

i disagree (now)- see reply to thrillfactor.

[InchoateHand]

A lone ten is a) not a strong hand, and b) buttons seldom need more than the button to bet a check-through flop.

[Victor]

So your suggestion is?????

All I am saying is that our hero has no idea where his is at with middle pair and a good draw. I think the button needs something to bet into this many players twice. A 10 is the most likely. The pot is not that big so our hero should not resort to extreme measures to win it. Just call and let the overcards in because it is not that likely that hero is ahead here anyway. The overcards will pad the pot for his straight/9 draw. If a blank undercard hits then he can check call the button, but if an ace hits and someone new bets out it is an easy fold.

[InchoateHand]

I'm sorry, I wasn't replying to the original poster directly, merely trying to parse erroneous advice he was given.

[Victor]

Erroneous advice huh?

You advice is: a top pair on the turn is not a strong hand when the whole field checks to you twice. and buttons usually bet into 6 players with nothing.

Consider this a parsing.

[InchoateHand]

The button bet the flop when it was checked to him, and people checked to the raiser on the turn, at which point he bet, obviously--which he kind of has to do, since he bet the flop when it was checked to him. Again, doesn't tell us much about the buttons holding. LP bettors bet a variety of things on the flop, if everyone checks. This is all the action we have--since Hero is next to act.