T6s in SB

[MHarris]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[Rubeskies]

Check-raise the flop and then bet the turn.


Why did you raise the turn? You probably no longer have the best hand and you want people to call now that you are drawing, not knock them out.

[J.R.]

Check-raise the flop. If you want to do anything bet the turn, but don't checkraise unless you think CO is exceptionally weak and will fold as you dont mind an additional caller with a gutshot, flushdraw and possibly 2 ten (or even less so probably three 6) outs.

The river bet is fine, but if you had just check-called the turn you could have gotten a check-raise in on the river (its appears to be one of those cases where the check-raise is fine because of the minimized chance you will get 3-bet by a better hand and the odds you only get one bet because the BB doesn't overcall anyway).

This is an example of why the value raise a thin ev edge with a decent drawing hand on the turn is overrated (especially out of position), as you put in multiple bets on the turn with a thin edge (or without an edge when you get 3-bet and the pot isn't as mulitway as you need it to be for value or your outs are not as clean as you think or you are drawing dead to a better hand/better draw) and severely limt your ability to put in multiple bets on the river when you edge is much larger.

[MHarris]

Sorry, forgot to include reads on CO in original post. Loose PF, leads postflop if given the chance but usually backs down when faced with aggression. I agree with the C/R on the flop.....I honestly didn't give it much thought at the time......and the reasons I raised the turn were a) CO will lead at that flop and turn in LP with no pair and no draw, b) CO would likely throw away a 9, 8, or maybe a weak T, c) I thought confronting BB with 2 cold on the turn may deter him from continuing with a gutshot or single pair. If one of them was ahead, I had a redraw (which I needed). I was questioning my turn play here.....given the read on CO, is there value in it?

[J.R.]

'I was questioning my turn play here.....given the read on CO, is there value in it?"

There's more value in raising the flop and denying everyone else the correct odds to draw to their overcards/gutshots and/or (less likley) inducing an incorrect fold.

[IndieMatty]

I would. Bet out. Call the raise (if any) if no raise (most likely); I will bet out the turn; call raise; fold to a non spade.

Your line: I would at least check raise the flop. But certainly not re-raise the turn.

Great Hannibal Hand though....your hand/plan came together.

P.S. I still think there are some here who are so in love with the check-raise here we are afraid to bet out. On Paradise last night, I had 5-7o in the BB, and the flop was 5-7 Q, I bet out, got raised on a non-scary turn, about 5-6 callers the whole way, and dragged a 65+ pot. Your action will come, LL players LOVE to call. We don't always need to get cute.

[Rubeskies]

This is a great time to checkraise. There are numerous gutshots and backdoor draws not to mention a myriad of overcards. A bet here is not protecting anything (no one is folding) and his hand is very vunerable. On top of this the pot is very multiway.

[J.R.]

Your action will come, LL players LOVE to call. We don't always need to get cute.

Uhhh, hero *Doesn't* want people to call with his vulnerable pair of tens on this draw ladden board.

[IndieMatty]

Sorry, people auto c/r with top pair is something I'm not fond of. Poor thread to bring that up, agreed. A checkraise is the best option here.

My only response is with all the passives out there, I see plenty of attempted checkraises on a board like this whiffing all the time...I like to have a read on my LP players knowing that they like to bet before I instantly assume I will be able to checkraise.

[IndieMatty]

I agree, I just need to know I will be bet into, and I see a lot of people afraid of this flop.

At what point does the risk of giving a free card, outweigh a checkraise being the best option?

[Rubeskies]

There are 5 opponents in the situation so there is a good chance somebody will bet this. Also, a free card isn't terrible. It allows the hero in early position to throw a double-sized bet into a small pot to lower people's drawing odds even more if a safe card comes on the turn.

[IndieMatty]

You are making more sense then me. 5 players are likely to bet into this...