Lost in Detail?

[parappa]

This is a general question I'd like impressions on. For those of us (I am one) who sit up late at night attempting to calculate whether there's good enough EV to push first in from the button with 7xbb in your stack with A7o or if nothing less than A8o will do in that spot, the question is:

Am I missing the forest for the trees here? What generally happens is that I think about some hand or other much too much, then get very specific and analyze the thing in microscopic detail. I enjoy doing it (as I think most geeks do), but I simply wonder if I'm ignoring the bigger picture.

Take the picked-from-the-air example above. Would it make an appreciable difference in ROI if I was pushing A2o or KJo from that spot? I can see that pushing 83s there would lower ROI, but is a discussion like that akin to counting angels on a pin? I'm playing against really, really bad players here, and after a beat I go away wondering if that push first in from the small blind with KT and 5xbb was really such a good idea.

Anyway, the basic question that I'm trying to ask is how much fine detail there really is in these things and how much is simply attempting to put an extra molecule of icing on top of the cake. Is it enough to take a basic understanding of the odds, adjusted for folding equity/player reads, etc. and go with it? Is there a point at which the rest can be described as mere detail? I really thought that after 500 of these games I'd have a good sense of my own game, I feel like I actually know less and less the more I play.

(btw, I think that A7o and KTs in those spots are just fine /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[stripsqueez]

the math is just a tool that helps you understand the game - i have a rough idea which hands are best and how broad a range i can play in certain spots - but - at the table i'm remembering how often i pushed previously and what the odds are one of these chooks is going to call when i get A7o UTG
5 handed

its not much of a game if all you need is a calculator

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Irieguy]

I think the value in micro-analyzing hands is to strengthen or modify your instincts. At the table, I rarely do anything other than very quick and simple odds calculations... everything else is instinct (based on literally millions of hands of experience).

So, when a question about a hand is posted, I will arrive at an answer in a few seconds. If, after more careful consideration it turns out my instincts are wrong... then it's time to spend some energy creating new instincts for that type of situation.

One example is the fact that I was pushing with K-2s shorthanded and folding with J-9 more often than not. But if you look at how those hands do against all of the hands that are likely to call you shorthanded, I was making a mistake. K-2 seemed like a better hand to push with to me, but it's not. Turns out hot-and-cold values (which make K-2 a better hand than J-9) are not the only considerations that affect hand values when you are 3 or 4 handed. You also need to look at how likely you are to dominate or be dominated by marginal calling hands.

That's just an example of how micro-analyzing a specific situation can help you modify your instincts.

Irieguy