AKs

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Full Tilt 200 NL

I got $250. Villian has $160. No reads on him, but he hasn't done anything stupid.

I'm UTG+1 and open raise to 7 bucks with A /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif MP makes it 15 to go. Folded back to me, I call.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check. He bets $20. I push.

[pdubz]

Wait, what's the rationale?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, what's the rationale?

[/ QUOTE ]

you saying it's a bad play?

[SlyAK]

Well played, you obviously want to see both cards here, so you cant check-call twice, because if he punishes you on the turn you might not have odds to see the river card.

Based on opponents reraise PF I would have to put him on JJ-AA or AK.... Your all-in looks strong and it could get him to fold fearing something like a set of 10's, (this is fine, you are behind AA and KK, but technically ahead of QQ and JJ, which are more likely since we have 1 of the Aces and Kings accounted for). If he calls with QQ/JJ then your in good shape, if he calls with KK or AA you are very live thats for sure.

Nice hand.

Sly

[Sponger15SB]

standard.

unless he is smart, and knows this is standard.


throw in a whine: this happened to me the other day when I flopped top set with JJ, unforunatly the guy beat me with a royal. wahhhh

[The4thFilm]

Standard. Howard Lederer wouldn't like it.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

dude where in IV are you?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

he calls and flips over red jacks. i spike the A /images/graemlins/club.gif on the river for the aces.

then he goes on berating me about how lucky i got.

basically sly got this right on the dot.
i dont' want to check-call all the way for couple reasons. if a blank falls on the turn i don't want to have to call a huge bet.
if a flush card hits or an A or K falls i may not get paid off by QQ, JJ.

also, against most hands i am the favorite on the flop, but often won't be on the turn, so pushing is best.

if he has QQ or JJ I got 15 outs and am practically a 3:2 favorite. i WANT him to call with these hands.

if he has KK, i got 12 outs.
if he has AA, i got 9 outs.
but these combinations (though they seem like they happen to us more often than not) won't be shown against me that often here.

the only real hand i don't like seeing is a set, like TT, but hardly anybody re-raises with these medium-ish low-ish pocket pairs.

[fimbulwinter]

um, pretty standard, right?
what did you want input on?

fim

[SlyAK]

Against opponents who you play with often and will put you on AKs when you make this move, you need to occasionally due this large flop check-raise all-in with other hands, such as flopped sets, etc. This way they wont always call with AA/KK and fold the other hands that you are a favorite over.

Good to see you won.

BTW... I always play AKs like a wimp when I flop the nut-draw, maybe I should practice what I preach, eh?

[bunky9590]

Taking pages out of my playbook again aren't we?

I like it if the cat is weak tight.

[bunky9590]

I like using this move against weaker players who will tend to fold when the frighteners get put on if the overcard or the spade spikes.

The reason for the push here is because he is most likely the favorite on the flop with 2 overs and the nut draw. He also gets the money in not only when he is the favorite but when the opponent is most likely to play for a stack with an overpair.

If he calls the 20 and the turn blanks the subsequent bet will force him to call with bad odds or get away from his hand. If you have the bankroll (which I know CDC does) this flop push is way +EV.

He also has folding equity on the flop. Its not the end of the world if he takes it down on the flop with A High. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Nicely played buddy.

I posted one like this about 4 months ago.

Glad to see you learned from it.

Gregg

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
I posted one like this about 4 months ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually remembered that hand and when I pushed I was thinking, Bunky hit his hand, I better hit mine. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

whether I won or lost this pot or not, pushing is clearly the best move.

[ZManODS]

[ QUOTE ]
if he has QQ or JJ I got 15 outs and am practically a 3:2 favorite. i WANT him to call with these hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain this to me. I thought 15 outs to the river is about .85:1 underdog which is 1.17:1 favorite? I probably messed up somewhere but can you show me the math.

[ZManODS]

This move is standard? In all cases but QQ or JJ he is a slight underdog right? So why waste your money on a coinflip?

The only thing i can think of that adds to his hand is the fold equity on the flop, but the way the oppenent played his hand i doubt he will fold.

Can someone go into detail why this move is considered "Standard". Thanks.

[GimmeDaWatch]

I think Sly makes a good point. I see this move far more often in tournies than in ring games, but when I see this sort of check-raise overbet it always looks far more like the overcard/flush draw semi-bluff than any really big hand. I honestly cant think of a single time Ive seen anyone play a set like this when the stacks were fairly deep. How do you guys feel about a check-raise on the turn if a blank hits the turn? Obviously, you would no longer be a favorite over JJ or QQ, but it would sell strength a hell of alot more, get more money into the pot without villain being committed, and personally make me seriously think about folding an overpair against any solid player.

[bunky9590]

Its standard for a couple of reasons.

You have major folding equity when you have A high.

You are the statistical favorite to win the hand on the flop, but if you blank the turn you will NOT have proper odds to call. So, get your money in when you have WAY the best of it. The only hand you are introuble against is a set AA or KK. and you have odds to draw out so your not totally out on a limb.

(Anyone see the Raymer v. Matusow AJs v. 89 hand?)
Classic example of this instance.

BTW, I do sometimes do this with a set, youd be surprised how often it gets paid off. I will psuh, or reraise with a push even if its a severe overbet. In the games up to the 200 NL they usually still call.

[donny5k]

I think Lederer would have no problem with it. People seem to think Howard is very tight when in fact he's aggressive.