"Ready or not, here we go!"

[Cyrus]

Hmmm, looks like Dubya has finally wisened up to the fact that he is losing his shirt in this game and is getting ready to up and leave.

I don't think this was supposed to get leaked, though. Makes things tougher for the debates about goddamn Iraqi policy.

Oh, and another thing: I am gonna absolutely love the excuses of the Bush crowd, the folk who find an excuse for everything Bush does, when the time comes for Dubya to fold his tent and vamoose!


Robert Novak : Indications that a quick exit from Iraq is likely (http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak20.html)

[Bez]

Quick exit from Iraq impossible, whatever your political allegiance.

[vulturesrow]

If this turns out to be what happens, Im going to love seeing how quickly the liberals began demonizing Bush for not staying the course.

But at least Cyrus has finally admitted that Bush will be around long enough to be in charge long enough to effect this change. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jimbo]

So first Kerry says that President Bush is planning on calling up additional NG's and increasing the military presence in Iraq. Now a liberal journalist says we will be pulling out too soon.

It is like playing that silly childhood game Spin the Liberal. You know the one where you all take turns spinning a liberal in circles and try to guess which opinion he will have when he stops. Methinks that when the Cyrus was a child it got spun one too many times.

Jimbo

[MaxPower]

You consider Robert Novak a liberal? You really are a right winger.

[MaxPower]

I almost hope Bush wins so that he will have to take the blame for the disaster that is Iraq.

If Kerry wins they will blame him for not "Staying the course".

I do hope that we are able to bring some stability there no matter who wins, but I am not counting on it.

[Dr Wogga]

....I know. I know. The double digits lead is a right-wing conspiracy. Wrong again bozo

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
You consider Robert Novak a liberal? You really are a right winger.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. Novak, like former Presidential candidate Phil Graham, was conservative before conservative was cool.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Quick exit from Iraq impossible, whatever your political allegiance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then how are the troops going to get into Iran?

[dsm]

[ QUOTE ]
It is like playing that silly childhood game Spin the Liberal. You know the one where you all take turns spinning a liberal in circles and try to guess which opinion he will have when he stops. Methinks that when the Cyrus was a child it got spun one too many times.

Jimbo

[/ QUOTE ]

Jimbo you too much god damned funny /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Contact Robert Novak at:AppallingTreasonousCommie.com

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
Now a liberal journalist says we will be pulling out too soon.

[/ QUOTE ]Wow.

[ACPlayer]

If Bush/Kerry pulls out AQ claims they beat em out of Iraq.

If Bush/Kerry stay in Iraq, we give them a rallying point to attract more Muslims into Jihad against US/Israel.

Just like Hitler, Bush did not finish the job at hand before moving to the next battle (not to mention picking the wrong battle). I could say his fascist roots are showing, but I am going to above those types of personal attacks.

[sameoldsht]

Novac???? LMFAO!

[Cyrus]

I just realized that the initials of Al Qaeda are Ace-Queen.

What are the ramifications?

[Cyrus]

I though he was that drooling guy on Crossfire of yore, who, when Pat Buchanan was busye elsewhere, would pretend to get tough on that liberal guy with glasses.

[vulturesrow]

Had to work in the obligatory Bush-Hitler comparison huh?

[superleeds]

He needs to free up some troops for Iran

[ACPlayer]

.,

[vulturesrow]

Well at least jokerswild has company in the lunatic fringe now.

[Gamblor]

Premption: Bush is an idiot, he is the worst person to run this country in years.

But I digress:

Maybe I missed the headlines, can you provide a link that shows me how Bush:

- killed 10 million non-whites?

- herded non-whites into camps for forced labour

- believed in the "pure Aryan (not American) race"

- systematically ghettoized the cities of the US by ethnicity?

- wrote a book explaining his Final Solution to the Muslim problem?

- explains how he supported the same groups that supported Hitler (the Muslim Brotherhood, and virtually every Palestinian organized political movement - especially Yasser Arafat, nephew of Hitler confidante Haj Amin el-Husseini)

Comparing Bush to Hitler is a spit in the face of every single person that died trying to remove Hitler from Europe, and a big fat loogie in the face of every person, Jew or otherwise, that died in or survived the Holocaust.

[ACPlayer]

Oh heck. I would be happy to compare Hitler to Sharon if you like.

Get a life.

[Gamblor]

OK. Go ahead.

perhaps an article on how Sharon's Final Solution to murder all 300 million Arabs. can you show me that?

How about an academic piece on Sharon's brand new, American-made, gas ovens designed to mass-murder every Arab in the Middle East (they even made extra room for all the keffiyehs).

Another question: How is it that the Middle East's #1 military machine saunters into an Arab refugee camp with the express purpose of murdering as many Arabs as possible (as Cyrus, you, and Chris Alger have claimed), yet only manages to actually kill a couple at a time? Could it be that those few were the only ones the army was looking for? The ones who have been dispatching terrorists left and right for decades?

Anti-semites the world over have been trying to minimize the reality of the Holocaust. 6 million is a lot of people. The only comparable events are occuring right now in the Sudan. And it's the US that's championing interference while the UN sits by and watches. Why? Arab fascism.

Don't fall into that trap.

[elwoodblues]

Comparisons to hitler and nazis go over the top, but he isn't saying they are the same (i.e. gas chambers, Final Solution) just that there are similarities. Terms like Brown Shirt, Gestapo, Nazi, and Hitler are clearly hyperbole and aren't meant to mean a direct 1 to 1 comparison.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]


Just like Hitler, Bush did not finish the job at hand before moving to the next battle (not to mention picking the wrong battle). I could say his fascist roots are showing, but I am going to above those types of personal attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your going to compare Hitler to Bush, I'm going to compare the Penguin in Batman Returns(which runs for governor) to Kerry.


1) Both of them claim the incumbent is standing in the way of progress.

But someone's
got to supplant our standing-in-
the-way-of-progress Mayor and
don't deny it, Mr. Cobblepot, you've
got the magic!


2) Both of them claim to be more likeable.

CATWOMAN
Down, Oswald. We have to talk. You
see we've got something in common.

PENGUIN
Appetite for destruction?
Contempt for the czars of fashion?
Wait don't tell me ... Naked
sexual charisma?



3) Both of them claim that the incumbent is depending on the wrong people to make us safe. Therefore actually making us less safe.

PENGUIN
(booming squawk)
When it came time to ensure the
safety of our city, did the Mayor
have a plan? No, he relied on a
man. A "bat" man.

4) Both of them are worried about global warming.

A platform? Lemme see ... Stop
global warming. Start global
cooling. Make the world a colder
place.

5) Both of them have a lair on an Island. Kerry at Martha's vineyard, and the Penguin has one on a glacier. In Batman Returns he has an underground lair that was also surrounded by water.

6) Both of them aren't the greatest thing to look at.
CATWOMAN
(sneers)
I wouldn't touch you to scratch you.

7) Both of them have the hots for a woman who is a total B!tch.

PENGUIN
Let's consummate our fiendish union!

CATWOMAN
(sneers)
I wouldn't touch you to scratch you.

PENGUIN
I oughta have you spayed! You
sent out all the signals!

CATWOMAN
(moment of doubt)
Did I? Only 'cause my mom trained
me to, with a man... any man, all
men --
(slaps her forehead)
Corn dog!

8) Both of them criticize the incumbent for not having a plan.

PENGUIN
(booming squawk)
When it came time to ensure the
safety of our city, did the Mayor
have a plan? No, he relied on a
man. A "bat" man.


9) Both of them claim to have great goals but don't tell us how they are going to accomplish them.

PENGUIN
How can this be accomplished? I
know you're all concerned.
PENGUIN'S VOICE
Ya gotta admit ... I've played this
stinking city like a harp from
hell!



10) Kerry is in favor if big government that has control of everything. The penguin wants to have a big government and control everything via his henchmen.

PENGUIN'S VOICE
Hey, just relax and I'll take
care of the squealing, wretched,
pinhead puppets of Gotham.


11) Both of them are fighting a man that they think is Evil.

12) Kerry had a bad experience in Vietnam during his younger years, Penguin also had a bad childhood.
PENGUIN
All I want in return ... is the
chance to ... to find my folks.
Find out who they are ... and,
thusly, who I am ... and then,
with my parents, just ... try to
understand why ... why they did
what I guess they felt they had
to do, to a child who was born
looking a little ... different.
A child who spent his first
Christmas, and many since, in a
sewer.


13) Both of them contradict themselves.

14) Both of them make outlandish claims. Kerry about vietnam, Penguin... well watch the movie.


See how ridiculous that is? Neither candidate is evil, they just have different opinions.

[Gamblor]

there are similarities

If his claim is that there is any similarity between a dictator (despite the National Socialist party's election) who launched war on a relatively benign ethnic group, and a prime minister whose methods of controlling a belligerent, violent, and terrorist combatant are getting, granted, harsher and harsher, I just don't see it.

But that's merely the way I see it; to even mention those names in the same breath, I mean, come on.

ACPlayer may not have meant a direct comparision, but anti-Zionists have been saying it, quite literally for years.

Witness Dershowitz's recent speech at Drexel, in which he laid out a legal argument against the Palestinian Cause. He never claimed Palestinians should be killed, or that they're a cancer on the world, or anything derogatory about "them" other than their consistent strategy of terrorism as a method of coercing the Israeli government to cave to their demands. Yet somehow, a mob of anti-Zionists threatened to murder him and made signs equating the Star of David with a Swastika.

[ACPlayer]

With Gamblor you are either for the Israeli policies or you are an anti-semite. Subtleties are not his forte. Must come from the trainling in the Israeli military.

[Knockwurst]

[ QUOTE ]
OK. Go ahead.

perhaps an article on how Sharon's Final Solution to murder all 300 million Arabs. can you show me that?





If he thought he could get away with it, he probably would. He's killed thousands of Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and Southern Lebanon without much remorse.





How about an academic piece on Sharon's brand new, American-made, gas ovens designed to mass-murder every Arab in the Middle East (they even made extra room for all the keffiyehs).



Not American-made ovens, but American-made Apache helicopters seem to be doing the trick.



Another question: How is it that the Middle East's #1 military machine saunters into an Arab refugee camp with the express purpose of murdering as many Arabs as possible (as Cyrus, you, and Chris Alger have claimed), yet only manages to actually kill a couple at a time? Could it be that those few were the only ones the army was looking for? The ones who have been dispatching terrorists left and right for decades?




I don't think Sharon would even make this claim. A couple at a time? In Southern Lebanon? In Janean?




Anti-semites the world over have been trying to minimize the reality of the Holocaust. 6 million is a lot of people. The only comparable events are occuring right now in the Sudan. And it's the US that's championing interference while the UN sits by and watches. Why? Arab fascism.




Let me say that, I, along with many others, applaud your posts on Dafur (though I don't agree that Pan-Arabism is somehow to blame). No one is trying to minimize the slaughter of 6 million Jews, but it and Sudan are not the only two events of its kind. The genocide of 5 million Armenians by the Turks ranks up there; 10 million starved by Stalin; and a million in Rwanda are but a few examples of genocide on a comparable scale. What I get annoyed with is the Jewish proprietary interest in being victims of genocide, such as the ADL's protest of the use of the word Holocaust to describe genocides of a similar scale.

Don't fall into that trap.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Gamblor]

With Gamblor you are either for the Israeli policies or you are an anti-semite

To quote another poster: Pot, kettle, back.

It's one thing to be against Israeli policy, to claim it will not work, to claim it will only deepen the quagmire.

It is another thing to take Israeli claims as lies and Palestinian unverified claims as fact.

It is another thing to compare a democratically elected leader and an accountable prime minister to Adolf Hitler.

It is another thing to deliberately use words associated with the Holocaust to describe a policy that is hardly as genocidal as Hitler's, both belittling the deliberate genocide that was the Holocaust and blowing out of all proportion the war against a people whose major political leader's family was a supporter of Hitler.

It is another thing, finally, to blatantly LIE and misrepresent facts in order to further an agenda of anti-Israel and anti-Zionist ideology.

[Gamblor]

If he thought he could get away with it, he probably would.

That's as ridiculous as anything I've ever heard here, so ridiculous it isn't worthy of a thought out response.

Not American-made ovens, but American-made Apache helicopters seem to be doing the trick.

Are you implying that the Apache helicopters were purchased with the express intent to commit genocide against the entire Arab ethnicity?

A couple at a time? In Southern Lebanon? In Janean?

South Lebanon, as we've gone over repeatedly, was the result of the Islamic terrorist groups (most notably Hezb'alla) who were given shelter there by the Syrians (speaking of which, why only now has the Syrian occupation of Lebanon and the subsequent civil war against Christians there become an issue?)

There was no massacre in Jenin and that fact has been proven over and over. Palestinian death counts have ranged in the thousands (mostly from the British press) to a hundred or so (most worldwide media). Having seen pictures of the damaged battle zone I can tell you it is about 200 feet wide. That is not genocide, nor is it a deliberate attempt to commit genocide. It is a battle zone because the terrorists who dispatch each other to Israeli cities all live there and are based there, within a civilian population.

Of course in the past the Armenian holocaust and the Rwandan massacres were equally if not even worse than the Holocaust. But they're over, for the most part. Sudan is the only one still being played out. If they want to trademark the name Holocaust they're as bad as anyone else.

We're not victims. Once Israel was formed, that was the end of victimhood for the Jew. But we're also not murderers, and neither is our Prime Minister.

[Cyrus]

"Once Israel was formed, that was the end of victimhood for the Jew. But we're also not murderers, and neither is our Prime Minister."

Since your Prime Minister, the infamous Ariel Sharon, is a man who has committed an atrociously large number of war crimes, throughout his long and "illustrious" career as a military man, including, of course, a myriad of murders of women and children, your claim that "the Israelis are nor murderers" (none of 'em??) is somehow rendered most dubious.

On a related note, one wonders who is, when all is said and done, your Prime Minister? The one residing in the capital of Israel or the one in the capital of Canada? (I recall with amusement the indignant outrage with which you reacted to the accusations of "dual loyalty" that were leveled against some prominent Jewish-Americans a few months ago. Ah, how the world turns...)

[ACPlayer]

At least you acknowledge that any person against Israeli policy is an anti-semite.

I would like to introduce you to a number of born and raised Israelis (not to mention American Jews) who qualify as anti-semites based on that viewpoint.

[Gamblor]

On a related note, one wonders who is, when all is said and done, your Prime Minister? The one residing in the capital of Israel or the one in the capital of Canada?

When I'm in Canada, I'm subject to the laws of the Canadian government.

Likewise in Israel.

[elscorcho768]

ah, the double standards of the hate-Israel left. oh, and a little quote for your reading pleasure

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism."
Dr. Martin Luther King

[Cyrus]

"The hate-Israel left..."

Four words, four lies.

(Well, OK, the "the" is grammatrically true. /images/graemlins/grin.gif )

As to those who oppose Zionism being called "anti-semites", this is a patently misinformed accusation, which usually has sinister motives.

Dr Martin Luther King did not have sinister motives but he was also not familiar with the teachings of Gamblor's favorite Zionists, such as Jabotinsky, and certainly not with the strain of Reformed Zionism. It is this particularly odious and racist form of Zionism that dictates Israeli policy for the last five decades.

Every decent person should battle that ideology's supremacist and intolerant credo and resist its proponents. No matter if we get insulted in the process, such as being called "anti-semites" --- or being part of the "left"... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gamblor]

Both are my prime minister.

Do you have a problem with that?

[Gamblor]

It is this particularly odious and racist form of Zionism that dictates Israeli policy for the last five decades.

Lies.

The Likud came into power for the first time in the 1970s, after decades of Avoda, (The Labour, Left-of-Centre party) rule. The Avoda was a socialist left-wing party and advocated two states, side by side, until the War of Independence, when each and every Arab state rejected the two-state solution.

Likud's 1996 Election Platform (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/likud.html)

Why? When the people of Israel saw repeated how extending the olive branch of peace toward the Arabs continued to lead to attacks, they chose the security of Menachem Begin's hardline approach over the dovish Avoda's repeated failures.

The Arab-imperialist armies billeted in Arab towns in what is now Israel, stealing from the locals, ganging up on innocent Arabs to take what they wanted, squatting in their homes, and setting up army bases within civilian populations, the same way the Palestinian terrorists do today to the Arab civilians in the Territories.

Palestinian teen killed trying to stop Kassam launch (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1090466087097)

If you really want to know what Jabotinsky was about (hint: not a racist) then try reading (http://www.jabotinsky.org) what he wrote.