This one got me confused

[Hallett]

Button is maniac, in 64% of the hands, and raising pre-flop about 25%. He is the big loser of the table, down about 120 bucks. UTG is loose passive, in about 60% of the hands, never raising, very passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (9.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 11.25 BB, between UTG and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by UTG (11.25 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG has Td Kd (flush, ace high).
Hero has Qh Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: UTG wins 11.25 BB. </font>

I have no idea why I got so weak, most likely I figured if I three-bet nobody was leaving anyway, but that is just plain stupid. If they have a flush draw, I have to make it cost more.....

Ick.

/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[butters]

ewwwww. like you noted, the flop three-bet is mandatory. no flush draw is going anywhere, so get the money in while you can.

also mandatory is betting the turn. you've got outs against a flush, so even if you're raised you're not in bad shape. in fact, with enough callers, three-bet or cap. what you don't want is to let a 4th diamond hit the river cheap....

...but since that's exactly what you did, i'd seriously consider folding to the river bet. at most, i'd only pay one bet.

[Sadat X]

Interesting hand - I can see why you would want to go for for the CR on the turn, but in this case, that is an incorrect play. With your set you fill up about 1/4 of the time, thus a 3-bet on the flop is building a pot you might win even if someone makes a flush. With 4 opponents I would certainly 3-bet the flop.

I also bet the turn in your situation because you do not want to give a free card here if the button checks. You actually want the LAG to raise you here and make people call two cold to see the river.

[J.R.]

I have no idea why I got so weak, most likely I figured if I three-bet nobody was leaving anyway, but that is just plain stupid. If they have a flush draw, I have to make it cost more.....

Screw "cost more", or other thoughts about pot manipulation when you have a huge hand (save those thoughts for the times you have something like KQ in this spot). You have the nuts and the best draw, jam for value. Your position on the flop lets you trap people for at least 3-bets, so do it, and the button is a maniac so maybe he'll cap. I'd also bet the turn as you may still be ahead and have up to ten outs if not.

[mikeyvegas]

You know all of this, but just to get it out in print:

3 bet the flop.
Bet the turn.

[Hallett]

Thanks everyone, this is exactly the advice I was looking for. After the hand, I was trying to see if there was any reason for me NOT to three-bet the flop and bet out on the turn. I think I might have been trying to get fancy, and miss-use SSH by trying to check raise the turn in order to get people out of the hand. Regardless, I screwed it up, and it would be much wiser to play as described here.

Thanks

[gamblore99]

what everyone already said.

[challenger84]

*vomits*