J9s. Wanna do it with me?

[afk]

Table was a little tighter than most Party $.5/1 tables, but it was very passive preflop, almost no preflop raising. Normal passiveness postflop. My only read is for the player to my left, but he folded preflop (which is good 'cause he's a TAG - though I don't know if he's 2+2 or not).

I've never done one of these before... so play along! Also, when you post your action, please include why. I'll try to get it all up tonight, though if I don't get a lot of responses I'll finish it in the morning.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero...

[LaggyLou]

Raises. No credit for a made straight. You likely have the best hand.

[Piiop]

calls, raises non-scare card on turn or calls/folds depending on action to him on a scare card

[Sent]

Yeah I doubt raising the flop protects your hand at all, wait for the turn to make your move. No one with a draw will fold

-Sent

[afk]

Bingo. The flop is pretty straight forward.

Now the turn is actually the street I want help on. What do you do when a scare comes on the turn?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero...

[Piiop]

Well since it was checked to you, I'd say it's a pretty easy bet. If there was action, it would be a more difficult decision.

[Sent]

Checked to me? I bet. If they all call your bet and the river brings like 4 to the straight or something I check behind.

-Sent

[afk]

Agreed, the bet is easy so I'll move on quickly. Here's the decision I'd really like opinions on. I think the line I took was fine, but comments are always a good thing.

edit: forget what I said about liking the line I took because upon closer examination I don't like it.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero...

[Sent]

Hmm SB check raise, probably has a good hand. You are getting 1:9 to call, if you hit your FH you'll probably gain a few more bets so with implied odds I think you should call the raise, probably fold (or call) the river unimproved.

-Sent

[Entity]

Calls, and folds the river unimproved, or hopes that SB tries to go for the double checkraise and fails.

Rob

[zolltron]

But if the SB has a ten, you only have 2 jack outs to a FH that are live. Since the call is close assuming that all 4 cards are live, if we include the probability that the SB has a ten already I think its a fold.

-z

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
But if the SB has a ten, you only have 2 jack outs to a FH that are live. Since the call is close assuming that all 4 cards are live, if we include the probability that the SB has a ten already I think its a fold.

-z

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but SB could have something like Q8, 78, or KQ here as well, in which case we've got (2) J outs, (2) T outs, and (2) 9 outs. Bad micro players love to wait for inopportune moments to raise their "big" hands.

Either way, it's a close call. Folding wouldn't be terrible, but calling isn't that bad.

[davelin]

I'm also guessing that SB has a 10. Close one but I may fold.

[afk]

Results!

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB has 7s 8h (straight, jack high).
BB has Th As (full house, tens full of jacks).
Hero has 9d Jd (full house, jacks full of tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 22.50 BB. </font>

Basically, I'm not sure I should have called the c/r. I'm getting 9.5:1, which would be fantastic if I had a bunch of clean outs, but I think in this situation I can't count myself as having that many outs. I guess the call isn't horrible though.

Anyways, I hit a two outer. Hiyo!

[Trix]

This is a good example of when you should wait till the turn.


Fold to the turn CR, he has atleast a better J, a T or the straight, and you outs are pretty likely to be [censored].

[Nottom]

Raises.

[Trix]

explain ?

[DrBob]

I hope this isn't duplicative, I just saw the post.

I go for a value raise here. There is no protection issue. I'm not knocking out anyone this round. If I call, there will be 4.5BB in the pot and straight draws will still have the odds to call a bet then. If I raise, there will be 6.5BB in the pot on the turn and the gutshots still won't have the odds to make a turn call correct for them. I should have way over 25% pot equity, so a raise seems clearcut.

[DrBob]

Fold the turn.

I said previously I'd raise the flop, which I still believe is correct (value raise, no protection issue). Given what's happened on the turn, I expect I'm up against trip 10s or a made straight. Say the bluff possibility is cancelled by BB's calling along. 9's full of Js won't win against 10s full of 9s, so I think this is a 2-out situation versus trip 10s, not remotely justified by the pot odds. Given that a call would be marginal if I KNEW I was up against a made straight, the fold seems clearcut.

[Nottom]

Pot is too small to worry about waiting IMO

[SparkyDog]

I'd at least consider checking behind, the times you get check-raised (fairly often) will suck.

[SparkyDog]

The FH draw is only to 2 J outs, and I think SB may have already filled up. You're not ahead, and your draw is really weak, and even if you are, the straight and flush redraws swing this to a fold, given the way Hero played the turn and bet out.

All IMHO.

[Trix]

You are right, it isn´t as clear as I thought at first.
However if you are fairly sure that someone will bet the turn, then I prefer waiting as your equity will be about the double if a blank hits.