Is PP deal REALLY random???

[popsy]

As a Florida retiree who played some decent stud and draw back in the '60s and '70's, my interest in Hold 'em was piqued by the WPT on TV. After reading 2 books by Slansky and reading this board for a few weeks, I decided to give online HE a shot last week. The first night, the first 2 hands shown below came about a half hour apart.

Knowing that a floped FH is about 1000-1 against, and flopped fours about 10,000-1 against, I was somewhat shocked.

After resting for a few days, I entered a $10 SnG last night. The last hand cropped up early in the tourney.

Query: Is the deal REALLY honest???

hopstep balance $0, lost $25 [ 2c 2d ] [ a full house, Twos full of sevens -- 7d,7s,2c,2d,2h ]
oldstudplay balance $145.15, bet $25, collected $49, net +$24 [ 7h 7c ] [ four of a kind, sevens

Phantom45 balance $92.35, bet $30.50, collected $53.25, net +$22.75 [ Qc Jd ] [ four of a kind, queens -- Qc,Qd,Qs,Qh,Jd ]
mikedee25 balance $59.42, lost $1 (folded)
HghRlr balance $23.95, didn't bet (folded)
jetblast balance $85.84, lost $1 (folded)
hopstep balance $0, lost $22.75 [ 7h 7c ] [ a full house, Queens full of sevens -- Qd,Qs,Qh,7h,7c,7d ]


hopstep balance 665, bet 1470, collected 665, lost -805 [ 9c 9s ] [ a full house, Nines full of kings -- Kh,Kc,9c,9s,9h ]
BigNic63 balance 485, didn't bet (folded)

** Summary **
Main Pot: 1810 | Side Pot 1: 665
Board: [ 9h Kh Kc 6s Ts ]
privategirl balance 1810, bet 805, collected 1810, net +1005 [ Ks Kd ] [ four of a kind, kings -- Ks,Kd,Kh,Kc,Ts ]
rdb1300js balance 770, didn't bet (folded)
onotoa balance 1045, didn't bet (folded)

[ChristophUoR]

Of the people I know that play, the good ones tend to win and the poor ones tend to loose... No machine can be perfectly random, but they can get rediculously close and since their income relies on people trusting them, it only makes since for them to try. Just my $.02

Chris

Possibly also of interest: http://www.pokerroom.com/main/page/games/evstats/expValue

[Wayfare]

Party poker has a strong incentive to actually make the tables random. If, at any time, people found out it was "rigged," the site would lose practically all of its players.

Don't tell me that the fish would all come to suck out more, because most fish don't know they are fish and will leave too.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tosh]

I don't understand what you are presenting as a way of questioning if the deal is not random?

[Georgia Peach]

I know what you mean regarding Party. The board cards always seem to hit at least two players and sometimes three. And there seems to be a lot of flushes.

But I played down in Biloxi last month and saw some similar stuff. So, I tend to stay away from Party but I don't think they're crooked. It's just odd sometimes the way people runner runner you on that site.

[Pokerho]

My opinion is that they are making WAY too much money to ever jeopardize their gig. That is why, I think, that they are so aggressive when dealing with cheaters.

If you haven't seen any cheaters, you probably will at some point. In 6 months I have reported two players, and at least one of them (and probably both by now) had their account banned. They track EVERYTHING, so if you think about trying something sly, you won't get away with it for long.

This is a kind of roundabout way of saying it, I guess, but just watch the $10 sit and gos for a little while. It seems like they start at least 4 or 5 new tournaments every minute. Let's be crazy conservative and call it 1 new $10 tourney every 3 minutes on average. That's $10 times 20 every hour. So that's $4800 a DAY, and that's just in the $10 game! That's not counting any of the other sit & gos (whose buyin is up to $20) OR the rake in ring games. If it hasn't happened already, PP is about to hit A BILLION hands. That's alot of rake.

So like I say, they have WAY to much to lose to not make it as legit as they possibly can.

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
It's just odd sometimes the way people runner runner you on that site.

[/ QUOTE ]

You gotta think, in and 5 or 6 handed pot there are 3 or 4 people fishing for runner runner. Runner Runner will beat you more often with so many <><. But the times were you are the favorite and it holds up you get paid much much better than you would have against non-<><.

[popsy]

I am not talking about "Bad Beats", where a fool calls a bet against big odds and then "Sucks out". I am talking about someone who starts to play inernet poker, and has 3 flopped full houses beaten by 3 flopped sets of 4 in the first couple hundred hands. I played 5 card stud(Shows how OLD I am) and 5 card draw for about 25 years, at least 50000 hands, and saw 4's beat my full house on the first 5 cards exactly ONCE. Just wondering if the game is straight. Not whining about a bad beat for sure. I am a big boy, after all.

[popsy]

Nothing "Phishy" about this. These guys played great poker against me. One of them raised me all-in with quads, the other 2 called my all-in bet with quads. They didn't draw out on the turn or river when they should have folded the flop. This was FH against Quads on the flop. 3 times in the space of less than 100 hands. And me a brand new internet player!:) So I felt like asking those who had been around a while if the deal is really honest. Financial considerations for the site owners argue strongly for a 'square deal'. These 3 hands raised doubts in my old mind. That's all. Thanks for the replies...........

[Spook]

part of the oddness is just the nature of hold'em and community cards vs. your own hand. It is much easier to have a great second best hand be beaten.

(I don't play on PP however, so I am not making any judgments on their site)

[Leo Bello]

U must consider that at PP, with 40K players logged, there is about 10K tables opened at peak time. that means 10000 hands being dealt each minutes, or 600K per hour. You said u have seen it happen once in 50K hands. So it is possible that is happens up to 12 times in Party per hour?
Ok, that is not like that, but you will see many more fullhouse, flushes, and so on, maybe because so many hands are being dealt over there.
Although /i would be really curious to see the real statistics of one site about all the tables. Which percentage of flushes, fullhouse, quads happens in their tables in percentage time. It does seem extremely high.
(i am not referring to Party especifically but to all online Poker rooms crowded these days).