Two (weak?) flop decisions

[Zez]

B+M, 4-8 typical game, but with fewer people seeing the flop than usual.

Hand 1:
I'm late middle with Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif

Two limpers to me, I limp as does the CO. The BB checks.

5 to the flop:

8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

It was the best of flops, it was the worst of flops...

Anyway, loosie UTG bets, 2+2er bdypdx on my immediate right raises. CO and BB behind me yet to act. Now what?


Hand 2:

I limp UTG with 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Two late position callers, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop:

K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif

Check to late position #1 who bets. Late postion #2 raises. Folded to me. Now what?


I folded both these hands. Results later.

[MoreWineII]

Hand 1: I would raise PF. I'd ram & jam the flop too. If shown more aggression on the turn, I would probably go into call down mode.

Hand 2: Easy fold.

Eh?

[jrobb83]

Raise hand 1 preflop. I'm not folding here unless another spade hits, or two people do an impressive job of convincing me they have flushes in the turn.

[bdypdx]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, loosie UTG bets, 2+2er bdypdx on my immediate right raises. CO and BB behind me yet to act. Now what?


[/ QUOTE ]

I had As and a red Q, so I raised. The straight next to me folded. Turn was another A, giving me more outs...

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I would raise PF. I'd ram & jam the flop too. If shown more aggression on the turn, I would probably go into call down mode.

Hand 2: Easy fold.

Eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur.

[InchoateHand]

n/m

[Zez]

Hand 1:

I folded. No other spade fell and the guy to my left won with two pair, 7's and 8's. I hung my head in shame.


Hand 2: I folded. Turn and river brought no card higher than my eights. LP1 had A3, raiser had A7 and spiked a 7 on the river for two pair, K's and 7's.

I'm trying not to be results oriented, but I wonder about hand two. Many typical players would slowplay their trip kings here and wait to raise on the turn. Given that, perhaps I should have hung in as long as nothing larger than an 8 fell? PokerCalculator says I was way ahead on the flop if no K is out there.

[Zez]

[ QUOTE ]
The straight next to me folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that almost makes up for me check-raising you earlier.

At least no one could accuse us of softplaying each other, unlike the husband and wife team across the table.

[MoreWineII]

If it were one bet to you, I might raise. But two bets to you just screams that your hand is no good.

I agree that typically trips will wait until the turn to let loose, but still, there are a lot of hands that beat 88.

A bet + a raise tells me that at least one of those players has such a hand.

And, in most cases, I believe that will be the case. This hand was flukey.

[MoreWineII]

Amazingly, I probably know exactly who you're referring to.

[gamblore99]

ALthough you lost hand 2 I can't see staying in and playing it any good. Besides kings there are a ton of scare cards, and a large amount of the time your beat by the kings.

When you had to make this decision of staying in or folding, there were 6 sb in the pot, with late position behind you who may reraise it. the pot is tiny, its 2 sb to you. I think a majority of the time you will also have to call bets on the turn and river. if it was not raised then its debateable. as it stands, this is a clear fold

[Derek in NYC]

I would 3-bet hand 1 with the expectation that somebody to your right will cap. You will most likely force out the two players behind you. If they stay in (or even raise), you have to give them credit for made hands if they show aggression on the turn.

But assuming the two players after you fold and the flop gets capped by somebody to your right, the turn action will dictate what to do.

If #1 bets out and #2 raises, you have to fold. Sure, you could be laying down to a super aggressive bet on the come, but you just cant overcall 2 bets cold with a capped flop, particularly because you fear the reraise.

If #1 bets and #2 calls, you should call down. If #1 and #2 check to you, take the freecard, and call down the river with the expectation that you will fold if another spade falls on 5th street.

I would play hand #2 the same as you did.